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Potential Vulnerability of Keyless Ride

Omega Man said:
Reading codes has been around for a long time. It’s the ease of reading codes that, along with professional readers, can suggest repair hints that is rapidly changing.

1992 Dodge Dakota-


One vehicle I had had a check engine light that was turned on by the age and decay of a 9-volt battery hidden behind the glove-box. New battery and a probe with a toothpick and you were good to go.

:gerg

OM
Click to expand...

Common in OBD1 and earlier, but OBDII has really changed the game and given us visibility into the inner workings of our vehicles.

I have a 98 VFR that developed a miss and illuminated the FI light. I have no way to interrogate it and find out what's broken, so I either get to buy some dedicated tools for this bike, take it to someone that has them or start randomly throwing parts at it.

The OBDII stuff is a godsend, IMHO, when it comes to diagnosis and testing.
 
kbasa said:
I wish that there was an alternative to the GS911 for BMW bikes, though. Aren't they still at like $400 or something? The one I bought for my car, which can accept a chip to add new vehicles (like my wife's Audi) was $150? And the chip to add Audi diagnostics is only like $60. And it doesn't have a 10 VIN cap.
Click to expand...

My Foxwell NT 630 Plus came with a micro SD that had a basic OBD2 vehicle database on it, but instructions that came with the tool allowed me to create an account on Foxwells website and add the info for dozens of other vehicles for free, including some brands I had never heard of. I still get emails from Foxwell and assume I can update the tool even further, but have no need to do so yet.

Hopefully someday Foxwell will create a downloadable database for our BMW motorcycles. Even if there was a charge for it, it would be nice to have a single OBD2 tool for everything in the garage.
 
kbasa said:
I'm using mine to maintain a Porsche. So far, I've been able to do everything to that car. Brakes, reset a misfire it recorded, used it to diagnose a bad ABS sensor, used it to reset the airbag warning, etc. These days, it's just another tool you need if you're going to work on lots of vehicles. I could pay the dealer $1000 to change my brake fluid, or I can go buy some at the auto parts store, use my $75 pressure bleeder to do the swap, then fire up the car's automated brake bleeding process to make it perfect. So by spending a bit on tools, I can save myself $800 vs. the dealer.

Back in the dark ages, as control systems arrived in vehicles, we didn't have tools to analyze what was going on with vehicles unless we had access to the same computers the dealerships used. Now we do and they're cheap and effective. But plenty of people don't seem to have picked up on that, so we get some interesting comments from time to time, don't we?

I wish that there was an alternative to the GS911 for BMW bikes, though. Aren't they still at like $400 or something? The one I bought for my car, which can accept a chip to add new vehicles (like my wife's Audi) was $150? And the chip to add Audi diagnostics is only like $60. And it doesn't have a 10 VIN cap.
Click to expand...

Wow, remind me to stay away from a Porsche. Nothing quite like German engineering. Maybe thank God for my '11 Mustang GT/CS. Early on I removed everything I could that said CS on it. Maybe that's why in 12 years its never given me issues, you think? Only kidding....maybe.
 
jammess said:
Wow, remind me to stay away from a Porsche. Nothing quite like German engineering. Maybe thank God for my '11 Mustang GT/CS. Early on I removed everything I could that said CS on it. Maybe that's why in 12 years its never given me issues, you think? Only kidding....maybe.
Click to expand...

Why? This car is stone simple to work on. Its three R12RT motors bolted together. :ha

Seriously. I bought this specific model because I could work on it and most of my skills developed on BMW motorcycles for the last 40+ years directly apply, especially my 05RT. I can have 5 motorcycles, including an Italian thing that loves time on the lift for maintenance, because I can do all this stuff myself.

I keep looking at Mustangs, probably because I'm from a "Ford Family" and born in Detroit, but a 7000rpm mid engine boxer motor is exactly what we need on the super tight roads we have here. :dunno

FWIW, my Ford F150 is now 23 years old and has been about the best purchase of my life. That thing is indestructible and stupid easy to work on.
 
Yeah, I guess you could say I am somewhat Ford oriented. There are die hard Ford guys and I admit I'm guilty as charged. Now, once upon a time (1963) I had the chance to drive an almost new Porsche Type C and I've never forgot it. Came close to buying a new 912 and to this day I wish I had. There, I confessed.:banghead
 
Nope

Visian said:
Now your bike will tell you what is wrong, if you have the right tools.
Click to expand...

The ECU, even when on a CANBUS system identifies a 'problem' it does not necessarily tell you what is wrong. It only identifies a circuit on which an anomaly has occurred. Getting a 'headlamp out' warning? Is it the bulb, a connection, the wiring, a switch...or even a CANBUS fault? Diagnostics is still required. Got a misfire code? Is it a fouled plug, a bad injector, low compression, a worn intake cam lobe or one of several other possible causes. Codes identify system problems, not necessarily component problems as many who have changed oxygen sensors because they had a sensor code...only to find out that the sensor was permanently maxed out due to a rich cylinder.
 
DSXMachina said:
The ECU, even when on a CANBUS system identifies a 'problem' it does not necessarily tell you what is wrong. It only identifies a circuit on which an anomaly has occurred. Getting a 'headlamp out' warning? Is it the bulb, a connection, the wiring, a switch...or even a CANBUS fault? Diagnostics is still required. Got a misfire code? Is it a fouled plug, a bad injector, low compression, a worn intake cam lobe or one of several other possible causes. Codes identify system problems, not necessarily component problems as many who have changed oxygen sensors because they had a sensor code...only to find out that the sensor was permanently maxed out due to a rich cylinder.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, then. Throw the thing away, it isn't worth sh!t. :rolleyes
 
DSXMachina said:
The ECU, even when on a CANBUS system identifies a 'problem' it does not necessarily tell you what is wrong. It only identifies a circuit on which an anomaly has occurred. Getting a 'headlamp out' warning? Is it the bulb, a connection, the wiring, a switch...or even a CANBUS fault? Diagnostics is still required. Got a misfire code? Is it a fouled plug, a bad injector, low compression, a worn intake cam lobe or one of several other possible causes. Codes identify system problems, not necessarily component problems as many who have changed oxygen sensors because they had a sensor code...only to find out that the sensor was permanently maxed out due to a rich cylinder.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. That's a better way to run diagnostics in my humble opinion. So you run a compression check for starters, which is a few minutes, then we're on to figuring out if it's an injector. Swap it with the other side and if it moves, you're done, if it doesn't, you probably have a bad coil pack.

CanBus faults? I haven't seen one in 17 years of CanBus cars and bikes, but sure, I guess.

Poor diagnosis is poor diagnosis and throwing parts at vehicles via incomplete or incorrect diagnosis is an expensive way to troubleshoot - something we all learned by diagnosing electrical systems on cars, right?
 
jammess said:
Wow, remind me to stay away from a Porsche. Nothing quite like German engineering.
Click to expand...

Say what you will about British engineering*, but the Lotus forums have had many posts that basically say, "wow, I love driving this so much that I'm selling my poor neglected Porsche!"




*reality: thanks to globalised industry and modern technology, today's British machines are actually pretty good, and yesterday's are really only as bad as the maintenance they receive. I used to have an '86 Turbo Esprit that got me to work a few mornings when my '02 VW GTI couldn't be bothered to not be broken.
 
"CanBus faults?" - I know of at least one local case (ok, not much data...) where replacing a two-foot section of fiber-optic line with a new one fixed a problem.
 
DSXMachina said:
The ECU, even when on a CANBUS system identifies a 'problem' it does not necessarily tell you what is wrong. It only identifies a circuit on which an anomaly has occurred. Getting a 'headlamp out' warning? Is it the bulb, a connection, the wiring, a switch...or even a CANBUS fault? Diagnostics is still required. Got a misfire code? Is it a fouled plug, a bad injector, low compression, a worn intake cam lobe or one of several other possible causes. Codes identify system problems, not necessarily component problems as many who have changed oxygen sensors because they had a sensor code...only to find out that the sensor was permanently maxed out due to a rich cylinder.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's exactly what you will get with your fault code reader gizmos so again I say who needs all the whistles and bells including CANBUS. KISS, I say.:clap I'm all for electronic controlled fuel injection and ignition with elimination of a high voltage distribution system but that's it and troubleshooting would actually be easier in many cases be it on automobiles or motorcycles. Just no need to complicate things with whistles and bells which needlessly run the purchase and maintenance costs up. I'm also all in with doing away with internal combustion but not with these 1000 pound environmentally unfriendly lithium ion batteries.
 
Getting back to my old post #2 -

From the July 2023 issue of Consumer Reports:

"Hyundai and Kia will provide a free software update to keep vehicles from being started without a key - a TikTok video trick that's led to car thefts. Kia reached out initially to Optima, Sorento, and Sportage owners for the free update. Hyundai started with Elantra, Sonata, and Venue owners. This is not a recall."
 
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