Potential Vulnerability of Keyless Ride

Not to suggest that there is reason to panic but rather to be vigilant.

This article describes how car thieves are exploiting the accessibility of the CAN-bus connectors on cars to hack into ECUs to simulate the presence of a key.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/12/vehicle-headlight-can-bus-injection-theft-method-update/

If anything the CAN-bus connectors on a motorcycle are even easier to access.

There is an active community of folks who exchange information on the inner workings of BMW motorcycle CAN-bus systems. I am not suggesting that any of them pose a threat but rather it is illustrative that CAN-systems are easily "sniffed" and the CAN messages exchanged amongst controllers identified and simulated.

https://github.com/kconger/bmw-motorrad-projects/

Like the advice at the end of the article states watching for signs of bodywork removal can be indicative of an attempt to access a CAN-bus connector.

Also, I've heard on the news (several times) that recent KIAs are easy to hack and steal too.

Pauls1150 said:

Also, I've heard on the news (several times) that recent KIAs are easy to hack and steal too.

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Is this before or after they spontaneously combust? Probably before....

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/au...recalled-fears-catching-fire-parked-rcna44409

No, that's the Pinto.
The spontaneous combustion is KIA's self-defense mechanism.

Pauls1150 said:

Also, I've heard on the news (several times) that recent KIAs are easy to hack and steal too.

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The Kia issue is more akin to a traditional and old school car theft than a tech based spoof of the security system.

CANbus.....what a joke. Today's technology is a farce, imo. BMW needs a CANbus system on their mc's like I need ... Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

jammess said:

CANbus.....what a joke. Today's technology is a farce, imo. BMW needs a CANbus system on their mc's like I need ... Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

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It’s not just BMW. - https://www.motorcycle.com/features/canbus-and-motorcycles.html

Additionally, this interconnection provides easier diagnostic of problems even to the “lamp out” display.

Much of it integrates all the systems that are expected on newer model bikes including mandated emissions systems.

OM

jammess said:

CANbus.....what a joke. Today's technology is a farce, imo. BMW needs a CANbus system on their mc's like I need ... Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

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Sounds like all the folks that were grousing about the Kbikes and saying that fuel injection and ABS was the work of the devil and stuff back about 1987.

jammess said:

Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

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Now your bike will tell you what is wrong, if you have the right tools.

Visian said:

Now your bike will tell you what is wrong, if you have the right tools.

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Right here. I have a Foxwell reader for my Boxster and it allows me to control it pretty well, alongside reading any potential error codes it might have accumulated (it doesn't, but if it did, I'd have a record). The ability to interrogate components and find out if they work or not is pretty terrific. For example, a colleague has a Cayman and it gave him a Check Engine Light. He plugged in his $150 reader and it told him that one of his coil packs was starting to get flaky, including telling him which one, specifically.

I'll take CanBus any day of the week, especially on bikes as complex as current. On my /2 or R100, some time with an ohmmeter and voltmeter is usually sufficient, but how would you do that on a modern, far more complex bike?

We all have our threshold for what we'll accept in terms of technology, but I'm 100% OK with CanBus.

jammess said:

CANbus.....what a joke. Today's technology is a farce, imo. BMW needs a CANbus system on their mc's like I need ... Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

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I haven't checked lately but I believe the Grumpy Old Man thread is still active.

yes it is.

BC1100S said:

I haven't checked lately but I believe the Grumpy Old Man thread is still active.

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jammess said:

CANbus.....what a joke. Today's technology is a farce, imo. BMW needs a CANbus system on their mc's like I need ... Tell me how any of this garbage has improved life in any productive way.

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Haven’t had to chase a failed wiring harness issue in some time, never had a no ride situation in over 200K on a lot of bikes equipped with it, so, don’t see the problem

kbasa said:

Right here. I have a Foxwell reader for my Boxster and it allows me to control it pretty well, alongside reading any potential error codes it might have accumulated (it doesn't, but if it did, I'd have a record). The ability to interrogate components and find out if they work or not is pretty terrific. For example, a colleague has a Cayman and it gave him a Check Engine Light. He plugged in his $150 reader and it told him that one of his coil packs was starting to get flaky, including telling him which one, specifically.

I'll take CanBus any day of the week, especially on bikes as complex as current. On my /2 or R100, some time with an ohmmeter and voltmeter is usually sufficient, but how would you do that on a modern, far more complex bike?

We all have our threshold for what we'll accept in terms of technology, but I'm 100% OK with CanBus.

Click to expand...

I see Amazon has the Foxwell OBD2 reader off 22% so for $70 not bad. In the case of a modern BMW I can definitely see where you might need one. That and a big wallet.

kbasa said:

Right here. I have a Foxwell reader for my Boxster and it allows me to control it pretty well, alongside reading any potential error codes it might have accumulated (it doesn't, but if it did, I'd have a record). The ability to interrogate components and find out if they work or not is pretty terrific. For example, a colleague has a Cayman and it gave him a Check Engine Light. He plugged in his $150 reader and it told him that one of his coil packs was starting to get flaky, including telling him which one, specifically.

I'll take CanBus any day of the week, especially on bikes as complex as current. On my /2 or R100, some time with an ohmmeter and voltmeter is usually sufficient, but how would you do that on a modern, far more complex bike?

We all have our threshold for what we'll accept in terms of technology, but I'm 100% OK with CanBus.

Click to expand...

I too have a Foxwell and have used it several times to diagnose issues on my German-made Mercedes, but so far have never even plugged it in to my other vehicle, which is of Asian manufacture. There simply hasn’t been a need. Maybe someday … even a Toyota will eventually need repair, or so I’ve heard anyway.

The Foxwells OBD2 database covers dozens of cars and is easily updated, but it’s unfortunate that BMW chose to use a non-standard connector and fault codes for our bikes. The Foxwell is less than $100. It would be nice if it worked on our bikes too.

OldCamper said:

it’s unfortunate that BMW chose to use a non-standard connector and fault codes for our bikes. The Foxwell is less than $100. It would be nice if it worked on our bikes too.

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There are adapter cables for 10 pin to OBD2 connectors but if it can't read the codes correctly that won't help I guess.

Just curious, On the new BMWs you must use a GS911 rather than a much less costly OBD2 reader? I really don't know why I'm even curious since I'll never in this lifetime, what's left of it own a BMW newer than my '93 R1100RSL. I gotta admit the prospect of turning 80 this year is beginning to seriously give me pause. Thinking of selling the FJR because it's getting to be too much for me to handle especially at my body weight of 159 lbs. Sorry for drifting off topic.

jammess said:

I see Amazon has the Foxwell OBD2 reader off 22% so for $70 not bad. In the case of a modern BMW I can definitely see where you might need one. That and a big wallet.

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I'm using mine to maintain a Porsche. So far, I've been able to do everything to that car. Brakes, reset a misfire it recorded, used it to diagnose a bad ABS sensor, used it to reset the airbag warning, etc. These days, it's just another tool you need if you're going to work on lots of vehicles. I could pay the dealer $1000 to change my brake fluid, or I can go buy some at the auto parts store, use my $75 pressure bleeder to do the swap, then fire up the car's automated brake bleeding process to make it perfect. So by spending a bit on tools, I can save myself $800 vs. the dealer.

Back in the dark ages, as control systems arrived in vehicles, we didn't have tools to analyze what was going on with vehicles unless we had access to the same computers the dealerships used. Now we do and they're cheap and effective. But plenty of people don't seem to have picked up on that, so we get some interesting comments from time to time, don't we?

I wish that there was an alternative to the GS911 for BMW bikes, though. Aren't they still at like $400 or something? The one I bought for my car, which can accept a chip to add new vehicles (like my wife's Audi) was $150? And the chip to add Audi diagnostics is only like $60. And it doesn't have a 10 VIN cap.

kbasa said:

Back in the dark ages, as control systems arrived in vehicles, we didn't have tools to analyze what was going on with vehicles unless we had access to the same computers the dealerships used. Now we do and they're cheap and effective. But plenty of people don't seem to have picked up on that, so we get some interesting comments from time to time, don't we?

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Reading codes has been around for a long time. It’s the ease of reading codes that, along with professional readers, can suggest repair hints that is rapidly changing.

1992 Dodge Dakota-


One vehicle I had had a check engine light that was turned on by the age and decay of a 9-volt battery hidden behind the glove-box. New battery and a probe with a toothpick and you were good to go.



OM