I am thinking of buying a new BMW. I've had a K1200LT, K1200RS, and currently an R1200RT. I've always wanted an R1250GS/GSA, but I have a 30" inseam and have always found the height intimidating when I sat on one in the showroom. My feet were simply too far from the ground to feel comfortable. I recently sat on a model with a factory-lowered suspension at a dealership. I was surprised to find that I could nearly flat-foot it: it was almost the same as my RT. My question is what do you lose when you have the suspension altered in this way? I suspect if it had no effect BMW would simply lower the seat instead of making it an option given how many people comment on the seat height. I don't see myself doing hard-core off-road riding, but I do want to ride off-road although most of my riding will be on the street. Does anyone know what is sacrificed when you opt for the lower suspension?
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GS Low Suspension - What Do You Lose?
- Thread starter itznuthin
- Start date
adamchandler
YouTube Mechanic
Low suspension GS is the bike everyone should buy especially if you're never leaving pavement. It's a great bike. still has more clearance than many bikes that are road-only sport touring bikes and the added benefit of any one can flat foot it.
What is different? shorter kick stand, shorter rear spring.
What is different? shorter kick stand, shorter rear spring.
Visian
look out!!!
You’re losing suspension travel, which compromises the ability of the bike to pound ground over rough surfaces (paved and unpaved) while fully loaded with gear.
My inseam is 29” but I grew up riding tall motocross and enduro bikes. Having ridden GS since the beginning, I would never trade away the suspension travel, but your riding style may be different.
Have you considered the R12XXR? It’s essentially a GS without the suspension travel, weight and “just off the piste” look. Costs a whole lot less, too.
Whatever you buy, invest in premium suspension before you leave the showroom floor. Keep your stock suspension for times when your premium shocks need rebuilding (about every 30-40k miles).
Ian
My inseam is 29” but I grew up riding tall motocross and enduro bikes. Having ridden GS since the beginning, I would never trade away the suspension travel, but your riding style may be different.
Have you considered the R12XXR? It’s essentially a GS without the suspension travel, weight and “just off the piste” look. Costs a whole lot less, too.
Whatever you buy, invest in premium suspension before you leave the showroom floor. Keep your stock suspension for times when your premium shocks need rebuilding (about every 30-40k miles).
Ian
Bingo... my 1150R scratches my GS itch.
Where is the R1250R????
On the BMW Motorrad website, it shows the 2022 R1250R next to the other BMW Roadster bikes which are all 2023 models. If you click on the 2022 R1250R you get a dead link (404 error). Right next to the picture of the R1250R is the 2023 S1000R. Maybe it's a short-term website glitch, they haven't figured out the 2023 R1250R model yet (unlikely), or is it being discontinued in 2023?
On the BMW Motorrad website, it shows the 2022 R1250R next to the other BMW Roadster bikes which are all 2023 models. If you click on the 2022 R1250R you get a dead link (404 error). Right next to the picture of the R1250R is the 2023 S1000R. Maybe it's a short-term website glitch, they haven't figured out the 2023 R1250R model yet (unlikely), or is it being discontinued in 2023?
Where my foot lands on the Adventure
I just came from the dealer. If I stand the Adventure up off the side stand I am on the balls of my feet, definitely not tip-toeing it. I suppose that would be OK. I could learn to do what the famous BMW Jocelyn Snow does (I believe she is 5'8" with a very short inseam) and slide partially off the saddle when I stop to flat foot it. I don't want to lose suspension travel because I don't know what I'll eventually do with the bike. I also saw on numerous YouTube reviews that the lower suspension results in s stiffer ride. I tend to ride longer distances, so I think that would be a problem for my old bones. I just want to be confident when I stop and gravel or other loose surfaces. Still not sure what to do but leaning toward regular suspension. I'm going to guess that there are a lot of GSA riders who are on the balls of their feet at a stop.
I just came from the dealer. If I stand the Adventure up off the side stand I am on the balls of my feet, definitely not tip-toeing it. I suppose that would be OK. I could learn to do what the famous BMW Jocelyn Snow does (I believe she is 5'8" with a very short inseam) and slide partially off the saddle when I stop to flat foot it. I don't want to lose suspension travel because I don't know what I'll eventually do with the bike. I also saw on numerous YouTube reviews that the lower suspension results in s stiffer ride. I tend to ride longer distances, so I think that would be a problem for my old bones. I just want to be confident when I stop and gravel or other loose surfaces. Still not sure what to do but leaning toward regular suspension. I'm going to guess that there are a lot of GSA riders who are on the balls of their feet at a stop.
Visian
look out!!!
The butt scooch method is what I always did, you get used to it. imo, the whole point of these bikes is long-travel suspension, and yes, with the suspension properly set up these bikes ride like a Cadillac (ok, Boomer!
) on the highway, and do impressively well even over rough surfaces, paved or unpaved. To me, the unspoken strength of these bikes is long highway days.The best investment you can make (again, imo) is premium suspension and *not* the ESA option (expensive, complex, not rebuildable). Keep your stock shocks for times when the good ones are being rebuilt.
Last, unless you really need the fuel capacity, I strongly recommend you try a standard GS before deciding. Lighter, slightly lower, less expensive, better handling in the twisties.
Ian
I have not been following it but these guys are.... https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/bmw-r-r-thread.844612/page-566#post-46206283
adamchandler
YouTube Mechanic
I've been through this with a LOT of people. The GS is the best bike BMW makes and a lot of people like the Adventure look and they want less plastic than an RT with the ability to travel in style and comfort. coming from the RT, they don't need any more suspension travel than the low and the R sells in the hundreds for a reason. It's not versatile like the RT or GS.
I run premium suspension but unless someone is WAY over the maximum weight and going off road, they don't need to spend the money. Stock ESA for anyone under 225 pounds is going to be fine.
lee
Debbie's Servant
The seat height on the GS is 1.5" lower and the R1250R is 2.8" lower.
lee
Debbie's Servant
They announced the 2023 today.
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?103198-2023-R1250R-Announced
Visian
look out!!!
Rear ESA shock - $2,810
Front ESA shock - $2,048
Total: $4,858 and non-rebuildable
Őhlins Rear - $1,400
Őhlins Front - $1,000
Total: $2,400 and rebuildable
Half price and fully rebuildable. A year ago I sold my 22 year-old 150k mile R1150 GS with fresh Őhlins (rebuilt 4x and *still* below the cost of 1x ESA)
I guess if one is wealthy and trade bikes every couple of years, one can avoid $5k for worn-out suspension.
as they say, ymmv.
Ian
Visian
look out!!!
Well, honestly, I don't see it that way. And it's important to recall what Chuck Manley used to say "we need to always remember that many of our members live tire-to-tire..." the point being that frugality is important to many of our members, even if they can afford a new bike before the suspension wears out.
The OP asked "what do I lose?" Well, you lose up to $5,800+ in certain circumstances.
While I have no idea regarding this member's financial status, a lot of people reading this might be among those who keeps their motorcycle a long time and care very much about costs. And many of them may not realize the cost of replacing their suspension if they plan to keep their motorcycle a long time or ride it more than the average rider.
Just as some members plan to ride their motorcycles on unpaved surfaces that are a lot rougher than a graded gravel road.
imo, these are valid observations in a completely civil discussion.
ymmv
The OP asked "what do I lose?" Well, you lose up to $5,800+ in certain circumstances.
While I have no idea regarding this member's financial status, a lot of people reading this might be among those who keeps their motorcycle a long time and care very much about costs. And many of them may not realize the cost of replacing their suspension if they plan to keep their motorcycle a long time or ride it more than the average rider.
Just as some members plan to ride their motorcycles on unpaved surfaces that are a lot rougher than a graded gravel road.
imo, these are valid observations in a completely civil discussion.
ymmv
adamchandler
YouTube Mechanic
Rear ESA shock - $2,810
Front ESA shock - $2,048
Total: $4,858 and non-rebuildable
Őhlins Rear - $1,400
Őhlins Front - $1,000
Total: $2,400 and rebuildable
Half price and fully rebuildable. A year ago I sold my 22 year-old 150k mile R1150 GS with fresh Őhlins (rebuilt 4x and *still* below the cost of 1x ESA)
I guess if one is wealthy and trade bikes every couple of years, one can avoid $5k for worn-out suspension.
as they say, ymmv.
Ian
My only argument is that if someone just spent $25K on a motorcycle, we should allow them to use it in stock form and not say they have to spend more money. True the stock is not rebuildable but when it fails or fails to meet the needs of the customer, then they consider spending money on it. That’s all. Just trying to be counter to your point that this person should buy a new bike then replace teh shocks.
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
Many BMW dealers will tell you that a given bike's suspension is not rebuildable when in fact it is. Best to ask a competent suspension specialist. Literally one can save thousands of dollars.
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
lee
Debbie's Servant
One problem when you order a bike now, ESA is grouped in with other items a rider may want like Cruise.
You can't order a base model, then pick and choose what you want.
When we ordered our RSs last year we had the choice of a base package or the Premium package with every included.
The only items I could pick and choose was the rear luggage rack and Sport seat. I did have the option to add a bunch of 719 stuff but passed on that.
Last year ESA was a separate item on the order sheet for the 2022 R1250R. That's the only bike I can think of where you could leave off ESA and get the other options.
Visian
look out!!!
Adam - all due respect to you, and I am almost hesitant to reply at this point, but this is why I said:
I would never buy ESA because of the cost and they can't be rebuilt by a factory-authorized resource. imo, the stock shocks are fine and the best investment is in premium rebuildable suspension, especially if one keeps their bike for a long time and rides in conditions more challenging than a graded gravel road or non-broken pavement.
Personally, I ride stuff like this, and much worse, all the time:
fwiw, even the stock BMW GS shocks are better than the Honda's!
adamchandler
YouTube Mechanic
I’m happy to have the same conversation with you in person at the MOA HQ if you’re coming out in a week. I think we 100% agree aftermarket suspension is worth it but I was replying to this, “ Whatever you buy, invest in premium suspension before you leave the showroom floor. Keep your stock suspension for times when your premium shocks need rebuilding (about every 30-40k miles).”
The person asking the question said, “ I've had a K1200LT, K1200RS, and currently an R1200RT.”
Both you and I see the value of aftermarket suspension that’s adjustable and rebuildable that’s why I have custom suspension on every single motorcycle I own that goes off road. So we are aligned there.
Telling someone on an R1200RT they need aftermarket suspension just because it’s rebuildable is where I felt like speaking up against it as a counterpoint that they may want to ride the new low GS they buy before spending $2500-$5000 before leaving the showroom.
I won’t reply again in fear of the mods just deleting this thinking I’m having a heated discussion here. I’m not aggravated or hostile or however forum people think I am without us talking face to face. I just try to help out when I see anyone on these forums say “you absolutely need this on your brand new bike” and I think most people should enjoy the bike in stock form first before they spend an extra dollar.
Looking forward to clearing this up in person when we talk next. No hostility at all. *hugz*
The person asking the question said, “ I've had a K1200LT, K1200RS, and currently an R1200RT.”
Both you and I see the value of aftermarket suspension that’s adjustable and rebuildable that’s why I have custom suspension on every single motorcycle I own that goes off road. So we are aligned there.
Telling someone on an R1200RT they need aftermarket suspension just because it’s rebuildable is where I felt like speaking up against it as a counterpoint that they may want to ride the new low GS they buy before spending $2500-$5000 before leaving the showroom.
I won’t reply again in fear of the mods just deleting this thinking I’m having a heated discussion here. I’m not aggravated or hostile or however forum people think I am without us talking face to face. I just try to help out when I see anyone on these forums say “you absolutely need this on your brand new bike” and I think most people should enjoy the bike in stock form first before they spend an extra dollar.
Looking forward to clearing this up in person when we talk next. No hostility at all. *hugz*
