Mentoring New Riders

[kbasa]

Training gives one some experience in the various aspects of riding,

Emergency braking, obstacle avoidance, counter steering and learning more push on the bar when you're going into a turn too hot, etc.

The training is no guarantee you'll never panic no matter what you were taught/know

Which means we should be practicing reinforcement of those "outer limit" skills until responses are second nature and to me that means "track day".

We're never going to get that by only riding on the street unless there's Something Horrible getting ready to happen, are we? How often during regular riding do we practice threshold braking or rapid changes in direction?

People not getting trained and then not keeping those skills current gets people killed, IMHO, so I'm a big fan of ongoing training. I used to run into people back in New England who skied and rode bikes. They'd take ski lessons every first day of skiing, but not for motorcycles, so I'd ask them why not? Which activity do you do more often and does it have the potential get you killed?

I don't think people ever actually thought about it once they'd passed their license test.

[brownie0486]

Which means we should be practicing reinforcement of those "outer limit" skills until responses are second nature and to me that means "track day".

We're never going to get that by only riding on the street unless there's Something Horrible getting ready to happen, are we? How often during regular riding do we practice threshold braking or rapid changes in direction?

If I'm not heading out for a multi day trip, not meeting up with others for a group ride [ and sometimes even then ], I motor 1/2 mile to the church parking lot [ and I have the pastors permission ] and do some avoidance drills [ those drills are weaves in and out every 12 feet at 15 mph ], emergency braking, 18-20 foot left and right circles etc. Only takes 5-7 minutes, then I'm ready to head out on a ride. So in my world, quite often, might even say regularly

People not getting trained and then not keeping those skills current gets people killed, IMHO, so I'm a big fan of ongoing training. I used to run into people back in New England who skied and rode bikes. They'd take ski lessons every first day of skiing, but not for motorcycles, so I'd ask them why not? Which activity do you do more often and does it have the potential get you killed?

I don't think people ever actually thought about it once they'd passed their license test.

Training or practice after you've taken the training?

[kbasa]

Training or practice after you've taken the training?

YES to both.

And then more of both. Practice is most useful when we get external critiques, IMHO.

Every single time I've been on a track, whether car or bike, I've learned something about my own limits and the limits of the vehicle.

[brownie0486]

YES to both.

And then more of both. Practice is most useful when we get external critiques, IMHO.

Every single time I've been on a track, whether car or bike, I've learned something about my own limits and the limits of the vehicle.

I use the police motorcycle standards and training for leo's for practice. I don't need to be shown those again, just practice them to keep them fresh.

As an example, emergency braking requirements for the boys in schools is 62 feet at 20mph. They also have the 40mph emergency braking but I foget the distance allowed for that drill.

18-20 foot circles, no different if someone is watching or not, you can do them or you can't. But having taken the training, most can meet these guidelines in practice.

Weaving in and out of cones set 12 feet apart at 10, then 15, then if you're well versed at this, at 20 mph.

I practice often in that church lot, not to see if I can do the skills, but to keep them sharp, the parameters are already established in the police motor officer courses. I find if I do 5-7 minutes in the church parking lot before heading off for a ride I maintain those fresh out of school skills.

I'm not interested in track days.

[tsconver]

The only place you should ever be at 100% of your ability is on a track or a closed course. On the road you should never exceed 80% of your ability that leaves room for those unexpected happeningds

[kbasa]

The only place you should ever be at 100% of your ability is on a track or a closed course. On the road you should never exceed 80% of your ability that leaves room for those unexpected happeningds

Exactly. And you'll probably never get to that 20% that can save your life on the street in regular riding.

Who knows what touches down first on their bike and on which side? You probably want to find that out on the track and get to a point where you're comfortable with it when it happens so you don't reflexively pick the bike up and run off the outside of the corner or into oncoming traffic. Especially if you've got someone encroaching on your space as they clip the inside corner coming the other way.

We all can find our own way to safe riding, but IMHO, track sessions should be part of any curious motorcyclist's riding experience.

[brownie0486]

The only place you should ever be at 100% of your ability is on a track or a closed course. On the road you should never exceed 80% of your ability that leaves room for those unexpected happeningds

That's what we were taught in school as well. I've never been a hooligan on a motor, 80% of my ability 40 years ago at 30 was somewhat different than 80% of my ability today.

The two police motor courses gave me a lot of insight into just how much I couldn't do with my motors for the first 40 years of riding. When I bought the second motor, within an hour I was testing my abilities with it based on the parameters of the motor school training. Easily got the 18' circles, cone weave at speed, emergency braking, figure 8's inside 20 footers etc.

I learn more about a new motor and what I can do with it doing this every day the first week, than riding it over the next year or two.

Counter steering through the cones at speed. I was catching the top outer edge of the panniers on the cones. knocked em over a few times when they kept pushing us for more speed through the drill.

[kbasa]

I did cop school with the Alameda County Sheriff's department and I learned a ton. It was one of the hardest days of riding I've done and I'm glad they had old KZ1000s as rental bikes. Mine had a volleyball sized dent in the top of the tank. It was endless low speed drills. Look up, turn it in. No counter steering here, look, point, go, keep your head up. Top speed that day was maybe 40 when they put us through a pretty minimal brake drill set.

But none of what I learned there will help when you're rolling down some mountain hillside on two lane at Speed Limit+ and there's a logging truck. That kind of safety, at speed, needs high speeds and lots of room.

I think a wise student of motorcycling will do both. They're complimentary skill sets, but neither is enough, on its own, to keep you safe in all situations.

If I was mentoring a returning rider or a newer ride, I'd be suggesting both slow school like a cop training session and track days. The things you learn at cop school aren't especially applicable when you're tipping it into a corner at 65mph on some backroad and need to respond to a lane encroachment by oncoming. And the things you're going to learn about braking points, weight transfer, body position, looking down the road and smooth transitions from acceleration to braking and vice versa aren't going to be very helpful when you're just trying to make a Uturn in a gas station.

If I can make one recommendation that maybe folks can get behind, it would be that to be safe, you need to remain a student of motorcycling to keep your skills sharp. I'm 65. I figure I'm going to be done riding by 75, not because I don't think I'll be able to, but because I don't think I'll have the reactions necessary to continue riding like I do safely.

[crna59]

The local WA State BMW Riders took Advanced Skills Training with us. Was a blast!!

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[kbasa]

We don't have the button, so "Like".

[motor10]

I've been mentoring my 20-year-old son since he began riding at 18-years-old. He rode a minibike as a kid, and that was the extent of his experience. I started teaching him to ride on cone problems in the grass horse riding ring behind the house. All slow work and finding, then using the gray area of the clutch. We did 90* turns, serpentines, super slow ride between cones and most importantly he learned head up, eyes up, look through what you are navigating to where you want to be. He was surprised how deeply into a turn you have to look to navigate it properly. Once he seemed to be fairly proficient, we moved to our large, paved driveway and started over with the same cone problems and added learning how to use the front brake for emergencies. I have shown him how to brake hard enough with just the front brake that he can stop the bike in a very short distance, causing the rear tire comes just off the pavement. Once I felt he had a good grasp of the skills, we rode on the street with me behind him as I offered coaching through the comms in our helmets. Sometimes I would lead to teach him lines to take through turns. After about 6-months of riding on the road together with my coaching, I signed us both up for the MSF Basic course. I had a blast taking the class with my son and he was so far advanced over the other students in his skill set that the class was easy and super fun for him. Looking forward to more classes with him in the future.

Below are things I pass along to new riders in addition to some of what has been said above:

1) the bike goes where you look.
2) head up, eyes up.
3) look through your turn to your exit point.
4) braking on the road should be 90% front and 10% rear.
5) front brakes can be squeezed as hard as you need, as long as it's done smoothly and progressively.
6) learn to find the gray area of the clutch, set the throttle and lightly apply rear brake for slow maneuvers.
7) low siding a bike is generally caused by over throttling in a turn or locking up the rear tire.
8) High siding generally happens when you lock up your rear tire and then release it and the tire regains traction.
9) take classes and practice often.
10) never stop learning.

[Voni]

I've been mentoring my 20-year-old son since he began riding at 18-years-old. He rode a minibike as a kid, and that was the extent of his experience. I started teaching him to ride on cone problems in the grass horse riding ring behind the house. All slow work and finding, then using the gray area of the clutch. We did 90* turns, serpentines, super slow ride between cones and most importantly he learned head up, eyes up, look through what you are navigating to where you want to be. He was surprised how deeply into a turn you have to look to navigate it properly. Once he seemed to be fairly proficient, we moved to our large, paved driveway and started over with the same cone problems and added learning how to use the front brake for emergencies. I have shown him how to brake hard enough with just the front brake that he can stop the bike in a very short distance, causing the rear tire comes just off the pavement. Once I felt he had a good grasp of the skills, we rode on the street with me behind him as I offered coaching through the comms in our helmets. Sometimes I would lead to teach him lines to take through turns. After about 6-months of riding on the road together with my coaching, I signed us both up for the MSF Basic course. I had a blast taking the class with my son and he was so far advanced over the other students in his skill set that the class was easy and super fun for him. Looking forward to more classes with him in the future.

Below are things I pass along to new riders in addition to some of what has been said above:

1) the bike goes where you look.
2) head up, eyes up.
3) look through your turn to your exit point.
4) braking on the road should be 90% front and 10% rear.
5) front brakes can be squeezed as hard as you need, as long as it's done smoothly and progressively.
6) learn to find the gray area of the clutch, set the throttle and lightly apply rear brake for slow maneuvers.
7) low siding a bike is generally caused by over throttling in a turn or locking up the rear tire.
8) High siding generally happens when you lock up your rear tire and then release it and the tire regains traction.
9) take classes and practice often.
10) never stop learning.

This sounds like an excellent article to share in our magazine! Hope you'll consider sharing it there!

Voni
sMiling