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Interesting legislation from Massachusetts on gas/diesel/electric vehicles

I have been watching these systems (energy saving) for a long time. Actually since, the days of roof mounted, glycol filled, black, super-store heat exchanged energy saving systems. They used to work quite well with being black, the circulated water was heated by the sun and boosted/pre-warmed the water for hot water boilers (FTR) and some pre-warming domestic hot water.
I used to take the crane out and "rig" the panels, bottom first, so new roofing shingles could be installed. The roofing crew would work under the panels and then I would lift the top so they could continue.
I would always inquire about the systems and the response was universally "hey, it was almost free". Further explanation would explain some grant or tax credit that made it so. Of course I would ask, "would you do it without the grant or tax money". I don't remember anyone saying they would.
Hopefully all the development of these new systems are done in the states where the sun is more of a guarantee and less of a maybe. Once they become cost effective enough for a homeowner to purchase a system, without need for subsidies, I think the whole deal will turn the corner.

Currently installs around here is a complicated math project where home deeds are involved along with convoluted wording on who really gets the tax credits. There are few installs in towns with municipal electric companies and many installs where the massive public utilities charge much more per KWH.

As existing new technology pushes forward, I'm afraid that existing infrastructure will be pushing back.

It seems that some think that I'm perhaps anti-electricity-

Some lite reading- I like electricity

I like it because it is cheaper initially to install. It is 100% efficient (heat). No deliveries. Natural gas or oil requires electricity to operate. No boiler maintenance. Kinda goes on and on.

Hope for the best.

OM
 
kbasa said:
Exactly. We're on the cusp of green energy becoming economically advantageous. Most of the rest, from what I can tell is either resistance to change or letting FUD control ones thinking.

IMHO, we won't be free of ICE for a few decades, if ever, but over time, EVs will replace a lot of vehicles. I'm not sure I buy the "only the rich" argument. Don't forget that market forces are still in play and we'll see economic factors yield to them, yielding lower cost cars. The used market is kinda silly right now, but if you need a short haul vehicle, you can buy a used Nissan Leaf for a few thousand bucks. It probably wouldn't work for you, but for most suburban situations, it'd do everything they need about 95% of the time.

I think that as we see "skateboard platforms" arrive, costs will drop. Until now, EVs have been bespoke products, sharing little with other models. Now, Kia, for example is working from a standardize platform, as is Audi/Porsche/VW. Economies of scale will start to apply. Given that an EV has something like 1/3rd (trying to remember here) the parts of an ICE car, we'll see prices begin to normalize and be more like what people are buying now. Just as a point of comparison, the average car payment is about $700, which roughly equates to a $40k car. We're not there yet with EVs broadly, but there are a pretty good selection of them out. My neighbor bought a VW id.4 and it came with 2 years of free charging. So they went and bought a Kia EV and that came with two years of free charging, too. After rebates, these are both ~$30K cars and more in line with folks going to buy a new top line Corolla or lower level Accord. We're getting there, right?

Consider EVs like communications technology's arc over the last 30 years. We're on UseNet now, moving to the Beeg Leest and I figure we're going to have forums/social media in the next few years.

Thanks for addressing the zero sum argument that keeps showing up in these kind of conversations.
Click to expand...

Green energy is economical for some, but not all at the moment, IMO. With regards to ICE, one of the biggest blocks-and why I’m not considering an EV at the moment, is the charging. My car is not parked in a garage or private driveway; as such, there’s no way to charge it at home. That seems to break the current model of charge the EV or plug in hybrid at home during night for me. So, until the charging time drops considerably, I don’t think an EV is right for me.

Granted, but 2035 when the sales of new ICE are to be banned, technological improvements will hopefully solve the charging issue. I don’t see EV’s becoming widespread across all classes of society until this happens. Too many vehicles parked on the street and in parking lots.

It’s also important to note that the government set the date to encourage companies to invest in the change. They also realize that it might not be possible to meet the goal by the deadline. And, as in the past when similar deadlines were given, the deadline is moved.

With regards to change, some people look at what’s to be gained, while others look at what they’re losing. As with everything, there are positives and negatives to EVs. I know it’s only a matter of time before I own an EV.
 
BMW has an interesting take with their CE02 Concept Bike. Some notable items include the overall image, very non-threatening and reminiscent of 70s/80s minibikes right down to the side panel creating the illusion of a ICE engine. And the video includes a lot of imagery of young people doing young people sorts of activities, clearly showing that this vehicle, like most EVs, is not designed for us—the grumpy old codger segment holding fast to the way things were.
:gerg

:)
Best,
DeVern
 
Nothing to do with electricity. Was listing to NPR this morning and even the segment director admitted that mentioning the "real" results of a study which found that-

"They estimate you would have to use an organic cotton bag 20,000 times more than a plastic grocery bag to make using it better for the environment".

The guest (Wait, Wait don't Tell Me) was given a hint that if they guessed within 2,000, they would get the game point. Who knew?

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

It's good to be wary of "trendy" solutions that really only make the public "feel good" with any real benefit- assumed.

OM
 
Omega Man said:
Nothing to do with electricity. Was listing to NPR this morning and even the segment director admitted that mentioning the "real" results of a study which found that-

"They estimate you would have to use an organic cotton bag 20,000 times more than a plastic grocery bag to make using it better for the environment".

The guest (Wait, Wait don't Tell Me) was given a hint that if they guessed within 2,000, they would get the game point. Who knew?

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage

It's good to be wary of "trendy" solutions that really only make the public "feel good" with any real benefit- assumed.

OM
Click to expand...

In other words, we are doomed so we might as well surrender and have fun!
 
GTRider said:
BMW has an interesting take with their CE02 Concept Bike. Some notable items include the overall image, very non-threatening and reminiscent of 70s/80s minibikes right down to the side panel creating the illusion of a ICE engine. And the video includes a lot of imagery of young people doing young people sorts of activities, clearly showing that this vehicle, like most EVs, is not designed for us—the grumpy old codger segment holding fast to the way things were.
Click to expand...

And yet, probably, none of those people in the video has enough money, let alone enough interest in riding a motorcycle, to buy a CE02. Although... there is *sort of* a case that the CE02 could be compared to Honda's Grom, one of the coolest bikes on the planet and a marketing hit. I bet this CE02 would retail for 4x the price of a Grom.

I get so sick of these videos full of cliches that are trying to make a market where (probably) none exists. That video is over a year old, has less than 1,000 likes and 104 comments from a subscriber audience of 263k. Not exactly setting the world on fire.

I sure wish BMW would take the money they spend developing products and promotions like this and invest in creating a practical, real-world usable electric motorcycle. If that is :gerg then so be it!
 
PGlaves said:
In other words, we are doomed so we might as well surrender and have fun!
Click to expand...

Naw…. It’s just good to be aware of what is really going on.

Being mindful of turning off lights, not running 1 pair of pants through the laundry at a time and doing what one can, can be good for the environment and save money at the same time.
Having one actually see money being saved and not “trendy” solutions will make people more inclined to do better…… Hopefully.
I think having fun can be incorporated into saving the waste stream especially from us OG’s :gerg especially when we show those behind us the possibilities.
:wave

OM
 
Alonzo Bodden, NPR Panelist.

For those that don’t know,
As NPR was referenced I thought I would take the opportunity to let the membership know that Alonzo Bodden, NPR panelist and American comedian is also an MOA member. Very nice guy, I signed him up last year, and I understand he was a presenter at the RA rally that year and that he is an avid BMW rider as well.

CBC8BC89-2E53-492D-ABDD-790B73475074.jpeg
 
rangerreece said:
For those that don’t know,
As NPR was referenced I thought I would take the opportunity to let the membership know that Alonzo Bodden, NPR panelist and American comedian is also an MOA member. Very nice guy, I signed him up last year, and I understand he was a presenter at the RA rally that year and that he is an avid BMW rider as well.
Click to expand...

He gave a great presentation/show at the RA rally, created a cool vibe. Let’s invite him to an MOA rally!

(Kudos to John Flores for setting it up!)
 
Visian said:
He gave a great presentation/show at the RA rally, created a cool vibe. Let’s invite him to an MOA rally!

(Kudos to John Flores for setting it up!)
Click to expand...

He was officially invited by the president, over the phone… but not as a performer, which is a great idea. Maybe I should fire off an email to our entertainment committee with a request.
 
rangerreece said:
He was officially invited by the president, over the phone… but not as a performer, which is a great idea. Maybe I should fire off an email to our entertainment committee with a request.
Click to expand...

Maybe consider something less formal than a show, something innovative and memorable to the attendees... something to do with 50 years and making MOA members feel like a part of something special.

This will no doubt involve a budget, but it's worth the investment!
 
Visian said:
This will no doubt involve a budget, but it's worth the investment!
Click to expand...

I agree but if your going to do it for one person you need to think about how it relates to others in attendance you have asked to attend. I was involved with an Enduro banquet where we had a guy that had his own motorcycle company at one time by the name of Penton, a couple former National Enduro Champions and two guys named Smith. One was a former World Motocross Champion and the other was made famous in the movie "On Any Sunday". We paid to fly one of them there and provide a room and ground transportation. Flying and housing Malcom made the deal. Got him in and got him out. Did not talk about that a lot but wonder how the others would have felt if they knew. You may be able to get Alonzo offering unique rides and/or VIP treatments sponsored by some of our dealers or vendors. Who of our trip vendors wouldn't want Alonzo along. If he has a scheduling conflict with a paying gig it would be a non-starter. Don't know unless you ask.

They said we would never get Malcom. We did.

Alonzo was great at the RA Rally.

He has a buddy by the name of Jay Leno.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
71,449 Life
 
wkoppa said:
They said we would never get Malcom. We did.
Click to expand...
Great story, and man, what I would not have given to be there. I just watched the digitally remastered On Any Sunday for the gazillionth time, the other day.

What I have in mind, and it’s only a rough creative thought at this point, is a way for someone(s) like Alonzo to interact with fellow members and tell the story of our club community over the past 50 years, but not in the usual way. Thinking out loud… imagine pairing him up with different members and spending time around the rally grounds and exhibits, working small clusters of fellow members and talking funny and interesting stuff. Think “wandering minstrel.”

My friend, Shawn Thomas, who you probably know, did something a little like this at one of our recent rallies. It was not widely recognized or followed because it wasn’t staged or promoted the way I’d have done it. But the main point is that he worked the rally attendees in a more granular fashion and I bet everyone who got involved remembers the experience to this day.


We have a lot of video in our YouTube channel, but most view counts are low. There is a way to fix this.

https://youtube.com/@BMWMOAorg
 
As I was scrolling through the YouTube thumbnails to find the video above, I came across this. 553 views… :cry

 
Coming late to this thread but I have some thoughts.

kbasa said:
After rebates, these are both ~$30K cars and more in line with folks going to buy a new top line Corolla or lower level Accord. We're getting there, right?
Click to expand...

Getting there, slowly but surely. But the up-front price of entry is still a big hurdle. Tax credits and rebates are nice but they favour the affluent and you still have to have the up-front price and that's still a big barrier to entry for a heluva lotta people. I know that'll eventually change but it feels like molasses in January, to use one of my elderly ma's favourite sayings.

Consider EVs like communications technology's arc over the last 30 years. We're on UseNet now, moving to the Beeg Leest and I figure we're going to have forums/social media in the next few years.
Click to expand...

The improvements and new developments are exciting! It's fun to watch and I suspect that my 2019-model car will prob'ly be my last ICE daily.

It's also interesting to see how well retrofits in older vehicles can work. This guy positively nailed it: https://mas-design.com/lotus-elon/
I have a different antique Lotus that has exactly the same engine & powertrain as what his Elan started with. Food for thought, especially if I ever blow-up the engine beyond practical repair.

Regarding some of the 'anti' attitudes, I think that cultural/ideological indoctrination accounts for some of that. Someone close to me who is kind of old-fashioned about a lot of things FREQUENTLY bitches moans and complains about so many aspects of driving and vehicle ownership yet says they'll stop driving when you pry their cold dead fingers from the steering wheel. Go figure.

Regarding Mr. Bodden, I'd LOVE to see him at our rally or other events. I've heard that he's done performances at Americade that were way more moto-centric than what he does for general audiences and they were a real h00t! And we all know how much potential for comedy there is in motorcycling! :D
 
Sparked ;) by a TV add asking to have people contact their legislators on the proposed, seems now law, to ban new natural gas hookups-

Massachusetts Legislature Legalizes Gas Bans- https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/26/massachusetts-legislature-legalizes-gas-bans/

IMO, this "trendy" concept really needs to find a home along side the common use energy sources before it try to overtake existing sources.

We haven't had much sun around here in around two weeks making solar a bit "iffy". The needle on the DC solar experiment I run here makes it look like its broken. With the grief the poor folks in Kaliphornia are going through, I can't picture solar performance has been much better out there lately.
If the two concepts could work together, I think we would have something...... Think of the reason for a backup generator.

Hope for the best.

OM
 
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