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Motorcyclist killed by Tesla on autopilot

brownie0486 said:
To drive in many areas of operation [ other than Mexico ], one needs to procure an international drivers license. International Driving Permits are Required* in the following countries for US Licensed Drivers: Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, and Spain

Now why would you think those countries require an international license and not accept your USA drivers license? :dunno
Click to expand...

Unless things have changed in recent years, which I doubt, an International Driver's License is nothing more than a piece of paper. It provides your local driver's license information in an internationally standard format and in alternate languages so that someone in let's say Spain can more readily determine what your foreign license status was when you applied for the piece of paper. There are (or were) no competency tests required to obtain an international driver's license that might make you more qualified to drive as a tourist in their country.

I will leave it to others to chime in if any of the above is materially wrong.
 
I am a 2 and 3 wheel instructor in WA State. Three years ago, they changed the requirements for licensing and made it more difficult. That did 2 things.... 1, it made riders want to be better and 2, it made the other riders to say f* it, I'm not going to go through that crap and ride "dirty".

Which leads me to present day. WA State Permits are now given out like "Participation Trophies". Everyone gets one! ... Especially in the H-D Riding Academy... We have to coddle those students that pay a premium to ride a Harley and make sure they get through class....
 
rhbike said:
Unless things have changed in recent years, which I doubt, an International Driver's License is nothing more than a piece of paper. It provides your local driver's license information in an internationally standard format and in alternate languages so that someone in let's say Spain can more readily determine what your foreign license status was when you applied for the piece of paper. There are (or were) no competency tests required to obtain an international driver's license that might make you more qualified to drive as a tourist in their country.

I will leave it to others to chime in if any of the above is materially wrong.
Click to expand...

You're correct, but it doesn't change the facts that you can't drive legally on your US drivers license in those locales
 
brownie0486 said:
You're correct, but it doesn't change the facts that you can't drive legally on your US drivers license in those locales
Click to expand...

I think you could be splitting hairs. Despite an International Drivers License (IDL) having "drivers license" in its name does not mean you took any sort of test. It simply transforms your US State or Canadian Provincial drivers license into a format and a variety of languages that authorities in other countries will have an easier time understanding. You are in effect very much driving on your US State or Canadian Provincial drivers license in that foreign country. It definitely does not mean one has the slightest clue of a foreign country's rules or customs of the road or the languages used on their signs.

In any event, how does one's residency/immigration status, knowledge of local language, or now IDL's or any other agenda you seem to be trying to play have to do with an autopilot driven car smacking into the back of a motorcycle in the middle of the night?
 
rhbike said:
I think you could be splitting hairs. Despite an International Drivers License (IDL) having "drivers license" in its name does not mean you took any sort of test. It simply transforms your US State or Canadian Provincial drivers license into a format and a variety of languages that authorities in other countries will have an easier time understanding. You are in effect very much driving on your US State or Canadian Provincial drivers license in that foreign country. It definitely does not mean one has the slightest clue of a foreign country's rules or customs of the road or the languages used on their signs.

In any event, how does one's residency/immigration status, knowledge of local language, or now IDL's or any other agenda you seem to be trying to play have to do with an autopilot driven car smacking into the back of a motorcycle in the middle of the night?
Click to expand...

Post 15 took it off topic

Post 16 followed up on the off topic

Post 19 continued the off topic

And post 20 is where I initially came into the thread. The topic had been taken off course concerning anything but Tesla's auto pilot posts 3 times before I entered the conversation.

You should be asking the posters in the 3 previous posts who took it off topic, not me. I posted on their off topic comments. :whistle
 
Threads are a social conversation not a university debate team event. Threads evolve, wander, have branches and sequels, stray to related topics, divert to unrelated subjects and ultimately fade into obscurity. Some threads are on a technical topic and those threads tend to stay on topic. Other threads are on topics that are more about a current affair and they are more likely to wander off course. Some threads are on hot topics such as club politics or a virus, for example. These threads can turn into food fights. One way threads get off course, if there is a proper course, is for someone to complain about off topic posts. When that happens you get a post like this. Probably better to ignore the posts one thinks are off topic, otherwise frustration is a certainty.
 
From MarketWatch:

Tesla accused of false advertising of Autopilot, Full Self-Driving: ‘Not based on facts’

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...t-based-on-facts-11659743583?rss=1&siteid=rss

“Tesla’s marketing of its driver-assist systems have long been controversial. Several years ago, Consumer Reports called on Tesla to change the Autopilot name, saying it gave drivers a false sense of security. Three years ago, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety released a study showing that people overestimated what Tesla’s Autopilot could do.

In June, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released for the first time data showing that Tesla vehicles topped the list of crashes linked to driver-assist technology, some of which involved fatalities.”
 
I’m surprised someone hasn’t created a thread on the forums yet that bemoans, “When will the MOA force Tesla to change their software to accommodate motorcycles, specifically BMW motorcycles?” We can easily get BMW to bend to our will as a club, why not Tesla too?
 
rangerreece said:
I’m surprised someone hasn’t created a thread on the forums yet that bemoans, “When will the MOA force Tesla to change their software to accommodate motorcycles, specifically BMW motorcycles?” We can easily get BMW to bend to our will as a club, why not Tesla too?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the laugh. Just give them time.
 
rangerreece said:
I’m surprised someone hasn’t created a thread on the forums yet that bemoans, “When will the MOA force Tesla to change their software to accommodate motorcycles, specifically BMW motorcycles?” We can easily get BMW to bend to our will as a club, why not Tesla too?
Click to expand...

:brow
 
akbeemer said:
Threads are a social conversation not a university debate team event. Threads evolve, wander, have branches and sequels, stray to related topics, divert to unrelated subjects and ultimately fade into obscurity. Some threads are on a technical topic and those threads tend to stay on topic. Other threads are on topics that are more about a current affair and they are more likely to wander off course. Some threads are on hot topics such as club politics or a virus, for example. These threads can turn into food fights. One way threads get off course, if there is a proper course, is for someone to complain about off topic posts. When that happens you get a post like this. Probably better to ignore the posts one thinks are off topic, otherwise frustration is a certainty.
Click to expand...

Wise words. Topics drift - it's the nature of conversations - and by my gauge the topic drift here is very slight. We are still on the larger topic of the danger posed to motorcycle by four-wheel traffic - "autopilot" or idiot.
 
Another Tesla class action lawsuit filed:

"A new lawsuit, which seeks class-action status, accuses Tesla Inc. of “deceptively and misleadingly” overstating the abilities of its Autopilot and Full Self Driving features.

The suit, filed in San Francisco federal court, accuses Tesla and its chief executive, Elon Musk, of misrepresenting the driver-assistance technology — which Tesla owners pay thousands of dollars extra for — and making promises they cannot keep."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/l...ing-capabilities-11663210110?rss=1&siteid=rss
 
Current technology & solutions

With the current state of technology and the variety of beaconing protocols out there, it would not seem a long stretch to equip a motorcycle with some sort of rf beacon that would be detectable by these "auto-driving" type vehicles and used as an alert to that vehicle that an obstacle of some sort that may not be seen with that vehicles systems is in close proximity and engage some alternative detection system or positioning algorithm for that specific obstacle. Or maybe someone is working on that now...

Jerry
 
jerryab9rj said:
With the current state of technology and the variety of beaconing protocols out there, it would not seem a long stretch to equip a motorcycle with some sort of rf beacon that would be detectable by these "auto-driving" type vehicles and used as an alert to that vehicle that an obstacle of some sort that may not be seen with that vehicles systems is in close proximity and engage some alternative detection system or positioning algorithm for that specific obstacle. Or maybe someone is working on that now...

Jerry
Click to expand...

And what about bicycles, pedestrians, kids, pets, wildlife, potholes or debris on the road...
 
beacons

rhbike said:
And what about bicycles, pedestrians, kids, pets, wildlife, potholes or debris on the road...
Click to expand...

Well, it might be hard to get those tags on all the animals, but the rest seem doable. They can already detect potholes. They just can't see the bike they push over to avoid them. Kind of like human drivers...

Jerry
 
Who pays for your fantasy tools?

In a just society, the people too lazy to drive their own cars safely would pay to protect potential victims from their incompetence to control lethal projectiles. Of course that sort of accounting and responsibility will not fit "the narrative".

Returns me to photon torpedo accessories for motorcyclists... I suppose I should add joggers, bicyclists, stroller and all other categories.
 
Any kind of RF "beacon" would have to go thru a jillion personal safety tests. Science KNOWS that electrical fields and devices that transmit will cause changes in cellular activity.
I don't see that happening.
 
A long time ago, I remember reading a stat in one of the popular car magazines that 80% of Corvettes came with an automatic.

Little wonder some cars come with "autopilot". Real drivers are scarce these days. If any of my 911s came with an automatic or a PDK, they would have lost a sale.
 
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