R1100s models, repair information and related

Just watched it...

SPP

R1100s crash worthy?

slowpokepete said:

Just watched it...

SPP

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I guess not the best track bike...and they were crashing the hell out of them during the cup races.

R1100s clutch service via unbolting the frame

I'm due to replace at least the friction and clutch slave. As I'm dreading the almost complete dismantling, jacking up the subframe , etc. etc. I noticed in a Chris Harris video a R1100s with the bike in half by unbolting the frame from the engine...this would save a lot of time! Anybody try this?, anybody see bad things happening if I do?
From the photos it looks like you set it up on the centerstand, unbolt everything and slide the whole thing as a unit back and away.

Thanks for your help
Byron

GS-911 R1100s

Decided to buy (begrudgingly) a GS-911 for the 2003 R1100s. Have a big trip and thought it would be good to bring one along. I see now it could be invaluable. Ran a search for fault codes and found only one that had been resolved for a back tail light issue and that was it. Looks like the dealership may have cleared what was on it before I took delivery. Ran tests on all that I dared. Software is clunky but does work and is extensive. Having replaced the battery, did a complete drain, bleed and refill of the ABS system, extensive LED/wiring, throttle body rebuilds...and nothing, no faults. Must be good or lucky or both.

I can't freaking believe it! I watched those 4 Chris Harris videos on the R1100S and low and behold he explained why after BMW went to the hydraulic clutch the trans input shaft spline issues began. My '93 R1100RSL doesn't have the hydraulic clutch and hence the trans input shaft splines fully engage the Clutch disk and wonder of wonders no more striped input shaft splines. I knew there was a reason why I liked my R1100 manual clutch over that hydraulic p.o.s. on my departed R1150RT!!

When I first acquired my beautiful R1100RSL with zero miles. I removed the trans from the engine before I ever even started the engine let alone rode the bike just to clean and lubricate the input shaft splines and I noted that unlike my departed R1150 there was full spline engagement and for the past 12 years I've wondered how this could be and for what reason. Now I find out that BMW just screwed the pooch which for them appears to be not a new phenomena! Ahhh, now why would I even think a thing like that? I think the answer to that question needs no analysis. I had over 50K miles on that 1150 when I sold it in 2016 and if the spline issue had occurred and years after I would have seen these videos I think I would have been so mad I would have got down on the floor and chewed the carpet.

Planned obsolesce or business killer

I feel your pain.
Another theory to unexplainable BMW moves is the thought there has been a long running attempt to kill the motorcycle division by the ruling auto division by invoking crippling cost restraints, massive parts cost increases to it's customers etc. Just when it looked like the auto division would have their way, along comes the ADV and it saved the the motorcycle division turning it into a profitable business once again. Then the RR superbike sealed the deal. Unfortunately, the company's predatory inclinations seem to continue with the edict that customers now will not have access to shop manuals.......$$$ just a theory.

Most all the manufactures are going with no shop manuals being available to the public.

Which means companies like Cylmer could make good $$$ if they play their cards right.

third party collaboration

I wonder how much a company like Clymer depends on the manufacturer in the prep of their manuals. I bet for simple mechanics not much, but they would need the manufacturer for tolerances, torque values, fluid levels, maintenance schedules...schematics

They probably rely on the manufacturer a decent amount... which is where they'd have to play their cards right.

Pauls1150 said:

The Boxer Cup version (code X393A?) also had a torque arm (at the rear suspension) that was 20 mm shorter, for quicker handling.

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That was also available with the Sport Package, which included the shorter torque arm, a 5.5" rear wheel and taller shocks, if memory serves. I had a '99R11S and it was a very capable motorcycle. It was also more sensitive to tire pressure and tire wear than any other motorcycle I've ever owned.

I had my S and a VFR at the same time. The S was nice, but I still have the VFR as it approaches its 25th anniversary.

Ha! I also had each in my garage at the same time - the S belonged to a great friend and the VFR belonged to his wife. The VFR was horribly under-sprung for me (his wife was a wee thing), but I thoroughly enjoyed them both!

CajunRider said:

Which means companies like Cylmer could make good $$$ if they play their cards right.

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https://fortnine.ca/en/haynes-repair-manual-bmw-r1200-liquid-cooled-twins-6281

Anton Lagladier (spelling?) has a really good write up on causes of spline failures on the 5 speed versus six speed transmissions. Chris Harris seems to put the blame on introduction of the hydraulic clutch. I don't think the hydraulic clutch has anything to do with spline failures. BMW simply introduced the hydraulic clutch when they replaced the 5 speed transmission with the new 6 speed trans. Had the input shaft fully engaged the clutch splines like on the 5 speed spline failures would not have increased in frequency with introduction of the 6 speed transmission with or without the hydraulic clutch. There is also a design change with the shape of the splines as well which maybe played a roll in spine failure I don't know. I think Anton is saying that without full spline engagement clutch to engine alignment issues become critical and can lead to spline failure. Full spline engagement will minimize spine failure. If, with the 6, speed trans no misalignment is present then odds are no spline failure even without full spline engagement. Hope I'm making sense here. I've long found this spline failure issue with oilheads most intriguing. Check out Anton's website.

I love my '99 1100 S and my new to me R100 RS is should be showing up today. I liked the videos, a few good nuggets of info in there.

R1100s spline issues

For what it matters, I did order a new friction disc to have on hand, it has a 6mm longer splined collar to "increase engagement". When I have to put a new disc in I'll measure the setup and check wear.

Another Chris Harris point for unusual spline wear was a rider error. Cruising the bike in too high a gear. His thought was too high a gear without acceleration or high revs would not apply significate pressure on the disc and would /could allow the disc to wonder down the spline to create more wear at the outer part of the shaft...

fbt80 said:

For what it matters, I did order a new friction disc to have on hand, it has a 6mm longer splined collar to "increase engagement". When I have to put a new disc in I'll measure the setup and check wear.

Another Chris Harris point for unusual spline wear was a rider error. Cruising the bike in too high a gear. His thought was too high a gear without acceleration or high revs would not apply significate pressure on the disc and would /could allow the disc to wonder down the spline to create more wear at the outer part of the shaft...

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Yes, when I had my 6 speed R1150RT I never rode in 6th gear because all my riding is on secondary roads and always avoid freeways like the plague. I live 60 miles from the closest interstate. Now with the R1100RSL with its M93 transmission I pretty much stay in 4th. Just no place to cruise at high speed which is OK with me.

Yesterday afternoon I removed the starter motor and looked at the exposed input shaft splines and it looked to be a bit less than on my departed R1150 but I can't really tell how much engagement there is without transmission removal and I'm not bored enough to bother. The splines on my '93 closely resemble the splines on the airhead Beemers and from what I remember the spline area of the input shaft is longer than on the 6 speed. I noted this when I did a spline lube when I got the bike in 2012 when the bike actually had one mile on the ODO like they all had on the ODO when new and not ridden at the time. I'm sure Anton is correct when he says the 5 speed has full spline engagement with the clutch hub.

At only about 13K original miles I'm not really concerned and if the worst should happen I'll most likely part it out anyway better yet just sell it as is. Not much riding time left for me, be 80 this year.

My dealer who is a good friend of ours has always said the spline failure has been over emphasized especially on the internet and is a very small percentage. The shop only experienced a few spline failures and had many more final drive bearing and drive shaft problems. We have taken down one of our R1100S apart at 60,000 and found no noticeable wear on the spline or driveshaft but the bearing was going bad. Replaced the disc with the longer one anyway and fitted a new bearing.

I think your dealer is absolutely positively correct especially when it comes to the internet in so many ways. That said BMW could have done a little better when it comes to input shaft spline engagement and if they absolutely had to go with the single sided swing arm then do it better. Also, if the shim is critical in the final drive then make darn sure it is done correctly. BMW and their quality control is lacking no doubt about it. Then we have not one but two U-joints on the drive shaft, huh! BMW could have learned a few things from companies like Yamaha some years ago. Nothing like fine fine German engineering, thank heavens. lol..lol..

If I were younger and thinking of a new motorcycle I don't know what I would buy but I know one brand I would shy away from. Can you guess which one?

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering how many times we have to beat this dead horse.