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Thread: Valve adjustments--why?

  1. #16
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    I always thought moving to “shim & bucket” style valves was a way to reduce weight and rotating mass in the engines…..especially those with higher redlines.
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  2. #17
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    True (it's reciprocating mass, I think), along with less wear overall (when the right metals are used and properly hardened, of course!).
    My Camry has solids.
    Not only can hydraulic lifters "pump up" at higher revs, causing valve float, they can also collapse.
    Bad boogie either way.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    True (it's reciprocating mass, I think), along with less wear overall (when the right metals are used and properly hardened, of course!).
    My Camry has solids.
    Not only can hydraulic lifters "pump up" at higher revs, causing valve float, they can also collapse.
    Bad boogie either way.
    My 82 Honda Sabre was time consuming to adjust the rear cylinders. Because of a previous experience with a dealer valve adjust that was billed and not done, I marked the valve covers on this one. Yep, no adjusting of the rear bank. So the tech, in doing it over, left them nice and loose. I got Honda involved. Did not help. Small claims court date was ignored, summary judgment not paid. Dealer went out of business. Ended up getting less than $20 from bankruptcy court, with the film and picture developing and printing, I made nothing.. Lawyers made out well. There are dealers that have soiled the reputation of all dealers.

    Rod

  4. #19
    Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. The few times I've posted a question here, there's been nothing but informative and interesting responses. One of the main reasons I've been a member for 13 years is the forum.
    One fact that made me think of the original question is that BMW (the car division) itself makes a 2.0 liter, 4 cyl, 322hp engine; MB has a 2.0l, 4cyl, 416hp; Volvo has one with the same configuration with 415hp. These are all high revving engines that do not require valve adjustments as far as I could find out. So why not a 1.6liter, four or six cyl, 140-160hp no-valve adjustment engine? Also, it's not only the cost--as one of the guys has said, you buy an expensive bike you should be able to pay for its upkeep, I get it--but having it done correctly. What bothers me is paying for something and not receiving it.

  5. #20
    Registered User Anyname's Avatar
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    I'd guess it's a combination of size and weight. You can deal with a lot of both in a car and you want as little of both on a motorcycle. Also, in my experience, shimmed valves almost never go out of spec after the break-in period and I've never have more than one shim replaced at the first servicing.

    BTW, for some years, BMW car motors have used their variable valve mechanisms instead of throttle bodies to control airflow into the motor. It's a slick piece of technology and is great for both efficiency and power, but its awfully large for a motorcycle. The is a slightly old explanation:

    https://www.facebook.com/Engineering...3512885391727/
    Last edited by Anyname; 05-13-2022 at 11:13 PM.
    BMW R bike rider, horizontally opposed to everything...

  6. #21
    Registered User tibork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Can you imagine telling the potential buyer of a Honda Accord or basic 3 series BMW that "you'll need do have the valves adjusted every 10-16,000 miles at a cost of $500?"
    Lamborghini clutch plate replacement recommended every 10-15K miles, cost: $15,000

    Bugatti Veyron recommended oil change intervals: 5-7K miles, cost: $21,000

    I would take the valve adjustment for $500 in a 3 series every 10-15K if there was one. ...
    1994 BMW R1100RS (ABS)

  7. #22
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibork View Post
    Lamborghini clutch plate replacement recommended every 10-15K miles, cost: $15,000

    Bugatti Veyron recommended oil change intervals: 5-7K miles, cost: $21,000

    I would take the valve adjustment for $500 in a 3 series every 10-15K if there was one. ...
    And if BMW follows those leads, dealing with a smaller and smaller segment of well-heeled buyers who simply don’t care about maintenance costs and service info availability, then I’d expect that down the road we’d see BMW dealers becoming as scarce as Lambo and Bugatti dealers. BMW motorcycles, too, for that matter.

    Best,
    DeVern
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    And if BMW follows those leads, dealing with a smaller and smaller segment of well-heeled buyers who simply don’t care about maintenance costs and service info availability, then I’d expect that down the road we’d see BMW dealers becoming as scarce as Lambo and Bugatti dealers. BMW motorcycles, too, for that matter.

    Best,
    DeVern
    What do you mean "if"? I thought that that was the case!

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by radioflyer View Post
    what do you mean "if"? I thought that that was the case!
    lol
    16 R1200RS, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  10. #25
    Registered User wkoppa's Avatar
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    Engineers that are not riders

    I imagine some of this can be traced back to engineering design decisions being made by those that don't ride or don't ride very much. Absolutely decisions being made my those that don't work on their own bikes. One of the questions for magazine interviews with BMW executives should be "what types bike maintenance have you performed in the past on what model motorcycle?". Probably not as much a BMW thing as much as a sign of the times.


    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449

  11. #26
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations.
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  12. #27
    Registered User wkoppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations.
    OM
    To get to the powered outlets in the cowl of the 310GS to hook up accessories there are 34 screws. Only 34. They could have engineered easy removal of the headlight from the front but didn't from what I can figure out. Some have said you can get the headlight out from the front but it don't seem to be possible or practical to me. Only 34



    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449

  13. #28
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkoppa View Post
    To get to the powered outlets in the cowl of the 310GS to hook up accessories there are 34 screws. Only 34. They could have engineered easy removal of the headlight from the front but didn't from what I can figure out. Some have said you can get the headlight out from the front but it don't seem to be possible or practical to me. Only 34



    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449
    At least the plastic tabs aren’t snapping off!
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations.
    OM
    I've always felt this. Also if they would be required to ride the bikes and clean them they might start putting real fenders on again.
    16 R1200RS, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  15. #30
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations.
    OM
    Don't forget the bean counters. Often things are redesigned and/or re-engineered because of costs. And this is sometimes-often (heck I don't know) without concern of longevity, maintenance, etc.
    Jeff in W.C.
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