Fix For Surging

This is the result of working on my R1100RT, and a friends R1100R. My 1100RT has always been a smooth running bike. I have always performed my own maintenance and valve checks and throttle body syncing was always done very carefully.

Last year the bike developed a pronounced surge and additionally the bike would stall when the clutch was disengaged suddenly, and the idle was very irregular. Valve adjustment and throttle sync didn’t help. I’m sure that I tried a few other things as well. I tried removing the cat code plug, which helped the run issues a lot, but I didn’t like that as a long term solution. Removing the CCP causes the bike to run richer which made me consider how else to approach that.

Raising the idle voltage of the TPS will cause the ECU to make the mixture richer. When I checked the TPS, the idle voltage was 331 mv, which really threw me because when I previously checked it was around 360. I adjusted the setting up to 385 mv, and checked it carefully and repeatedly. I have ridden the bike twice for about 275 miles, and it was transformed. The surge is just about gone, I don’t have to hold the throttle to keep from stalling. Running performance seemed to improve on the second ride. Gas mileage seems to be unchanged. I might bump the TPS up a little bit more, but the ECU has an upper limit of 400 mv before it throws a fault.

My friends 1100R was a much more involved problem. He had terrible running issues, and an incompetent independent tech did some really bad work. But in the end adjusting the TPS idle voltage brought his bike back to smooth running.

Based on the difference between the 2.2 and 2.4 ECU (1100/1150), I have no idea if this adjustment will apply to the 1150 bikes.

Lots of threads at the bottom of the page in the similar threads panel.
OM

If you haven't already done it just remove the cat code plug in the fuse/relay box under the seat then invest in a Dominator muffler which will cut the back pressure and get rid of that boat anchor of an OEM muffler catalytic converter all for about $235 with shipping cost. After you pull the most likely yellow colored code plug you can buy a bung plug from most any muffler shop and toss the O2 sensor in the circular file because the ECU will no longer see an O2 sensor input. Actually, if you buy a Dominator it comes with a bung plug so forget buying a separate one come to think of it. You might also check carefully for any air leaks like where the throttle bodies connect to the heads. Also, if you haven't done it, get rid of the carbon canister and plug the vacuum line ports on the throttle bodies which eliminates a possible air leak source. There's lots of threads on how to do this and it's not difficult. You can get the vacuum port plugs at any auto parts like NAPA.

Removing the cat code plug works on an R1100 but NOT on an R1150. Because of this one thing alone I would never ever buy an R1150, been there done that and never going there again ever in this life time! Now for another cup of coffee.

running better

jammess said:

If you haven't already done it just remove the cat code plug in the fuse/relay box under the seat then invest in a Dominator muffler which will cut the back pressure and get rid of that boat anchor of an OEM muffler catalytic converter all for about $235 with shipping cost. After you pull the most likely yellow colored code plug you can buy a bung plug from most any muffler shop and toss the O2 sensor in the circular file because the ECU will no longer see an O2 sensor input. Actually, if you buy a Dominator it comes with a bung plug so forget buying a separate one come to think of it. You might also check carefully for any air leaks like where the throttle bodies connect to the heads. Also, if you haven't done it, get rid of the carbon canister and plug the vacuum line ports on the throttle bodies which eliminates a possible air leak source. There's lots of threads on how to do this and it's not difficult. You can get the vacuum port plugs at any auto parts like NAPA.

Removing the cat code plug works on an R1100 but NOT on an R1150. Because of this one thing alone I would never ever buy an R1150, been there done that and never going there again ever in this life time! Now for another cup of coffee.

Click to expand...

Hi thanks for the info, pulled the yellow relay on my sons 2000 r1100rt much better did a 1200 km trip this weekend now do we have to remove the o2 censor and disconnect the electrical connector thanks in advance Jimmy

jimwjarmour said:

..... now do we have to remove the o2 censor and disconnect the electrical connector thanks in advance Jimmy

Click to expand...

Nope. Leave that in place.

Yup, you can leave the O2 sensor in place if you want since the ECU won't look for it anyway. I just removed mine because I don't like things that don't or no longer have a purpose.

I'm just repeating what I've read elsewhere so someone much more knowledgeable than me should chime in, but it's my understanding that running the bike open-loop with no CCP is not the ideal solution. If you run E10 gasoline, the bike will still run 4% lean and cannot adjust fueling to suit, so a bike with the cat code plug removed only runs perfectly on ethanol-free gas.
Another major problem would be anyone who's riding at varying altitudes or crossing high mountains. With no cat code plug, the bike can no longer adapt to incorrect fueling caused by thinner air.

Buying an aftermarket muffler is also more expensive than the electronic surging solution that currently exists: the AF-Xied. You can get them from Beemer Boneyard for $200 (with a 10% MOA discount!) and still keep your stock exhaust. It retains the closed-loop function but modifies the O2 sensor output to richen the fueling, and you can adjust how rich for how your particular bike runs.

I'm no expert but that seems like the best solution to me. The ECU can still adapt to changing conditions, but surging can be eliminated.

thanks

thanks guys will look for the AF Xed on line is that the same as the module ive heard about teclucion ? i think its called bye for now Jimmy

jimwjarmour said:

thanks guys will look for the AF Xed on line is that the same as the module ive heard about teclucion ? i think its called bye for now Jimmy

Click to expand...

No, the AF-Xied and the Techlusion are not the same thing. The AF-Xied is more sophisticated and is reported to work better.

I went a cheap way (flame suit on) for my 2001 R1150GS and this has worked.

Exhaust wise: Yes, generally expensive, although the catalytic converter delete is pretty reasonable. I had a Jardine lightweight muffler sitting around from my wife's Triumph Daytona (we put the stocker back on) and so I repurposed that. The weight reduction alone is noticeable and worth it just for that, at least to me. You could likely check eBay and find a cheaper one similarly used.

Fueling wise: THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT (but has worked on my bike). I added a 2kohm resistor in-line with the intake air temp sensor. Basically this tells the ECU that it's colder outside than it is. However, because of the curve of temperature vs. resistance, the warmer it is the bigger the temperature delta the ECU thinks there is. Yes, the ECU will use the O2 sensor and try to get the fueling back to its leaner setting, but ECUs generally have trim limits beyond which it won't go any leaner/richer based on the O2 sensor alone. I've been riding it like this for close to 1k miles and many tanks of fuel, and it's definitely more powerful/running richer. The one negative is that if I ride it on a cold day (around freezing or so - I think we're done with those days for the next 6 months or so here in Kansas) it is running lean and you feel it down on power. But I'm used to it being zippier and more powerful in the richer trim.

Just an alternative to consider.

When I started this post I was trying to post what I felt was my solution, or partial solution, to the surge issue. Unfortunately, the thread was hijacked into someone else’s issue and solutions.

So, attempting to get back to the original content, I followed up on a post from another site today. The suggestion was that switching from the RT standard yellow CCP to the pink CCP would have positive effect on the bike. To help anyone else from wasting time, this was disaster. After installing the pink CCP, I rode my 1100RT 130 miles today. The bike was surging excessively, popping on engine braking and unable to maintain an idle. When I returned home, I pulled pink CCP and returned the yellow one. Started the bike and it immediately idled smoothly.

My RT is a stock US model, with catalytic converter and an o2 sensor. The poster who suggested the pink CCP is in the UK and has no o2 sensor.

I have a couple of minor adjustments still in the works, and I will report back the results when they are done.

PGlaves said:

No, the AF-Xied and the Techlusion are not the same thing. The AF-Xied is more sophisticated and is reported to work better.

Click to expand...

Personal experience: the AF-Xied works great.

Another 130+ mile ride today. Before the ride, I changed out the 3923 copper spark plugs for a new pair of Autolite AP3923 plugs (platinum). I gapped these plugs to .035 instead of the .032 that the 3923 plugs had. I also rechecked the TPS idle voltage setting, which was consistently 385 mv.

This was the best result yet. Don't know if it is the platinum plugs or the slightly wider gap. I will try a standard 3923 with the ,035 gap later (much later) to test this. Surging is nearly unnoticeable, you have to be trying to make the bike surge and looking for it to feel it. Idle is fairly stable, there is a very occasional miss/stumble where the rpm drops about 200 rpm. Exhaust popping is reduced and is subdued. You have to really push engine braking to get a deceleration pop now.

This is the most stable ride this 1100RT has provided me in over a year.

ordered these

Hey i ordered these app3923 double platium is this correct thanks in advance ,Jimmy

jimwjarmour said:

Hey i ordered these app3923 double platium is this correct thanks in advance ,Jimmy

Click to expand...

Not what I ordered..... "Double Platinum"??? It has two Ps in the part number. Autolite sells, the 3923, the AP3923, and the APP3923. I plan on going back to test the 3923 copper electrode plug whenever the service life of the AP3923 is over.

autolite plugs

Hi Michael, checked with my local auto parts store they say autolite 3923, ap3923 or app3923 not recomended for my sons 2000 r1100rt where did you hear of these ? thanks in advance Jimmy

jimwjarmour said:

Hi Michael, checked with my local auto parts store they say autolite 3923, ap3923 or app3923 not recomended for my sons 2000 r1100rt where did you hear of these ? thanks in advance Jimmy

Click to expand...

The use of these plugs as a replacement for the three and double ground electrodes was introduced soon after the the introduction of the R1100 engines in the mid 1990s. The late Rob Lentini was one of the original experimentors. I have installed nothing but Autolite 3923 in the last 350,000 miles on Voni's R1100RS.

For a good discussion go here: https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70282-R1100RT-and-Autolite-3923-s Read the whole thread.

See my comments in Post #6 of that thread so I don't need to repeat them here.

The parts store guys only look up what's in their books - if it isn't there, they can't recommend it.
But a few of the "spark plug books" actually do show it in the "PowerSports" section.
https://www.autolite.com/parts-find...MfSACgHsA7nAAEAZQAOQ2ABcAzqQpD5cngE8eiCCAC6QA