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Ethanol Spiked Fuel

FortNine got out of his depth on the stabilizer eval. The test methodology used doesn't allow for meaningful conclusions.
 
akbeemer said:
FortNine got out of his depth on the stabilizer eval. The test methodology used doesn't allow for meaningful conclusions.
Click to expand...

That applies to the vast majority of home and shop evaluations. I don't bother with Project Farm, Nates Interactive Auto, Bob Is The Oil Guy and countless others. I guess if you have nothing better to do and want to be entertained, hell, its a free world. I worked in a lab environment for over 20 years with equipment these guys could never afford.
 
GlobalRider said:
I wonder what they do in Europe where I usually buy Shell V-Power 100 or Aral 102. You would reduce their octane numbers by ~5 to get to our octane numbers. I never thought about it, but do they use ethanol to boost their octane?
Click to expand...

The US and EU use different octane measurements; US numbers are usually several digits lower than a comparable European gas.

https://www.pei.org/wiki/octane-number

I didn’t see anything posted on the European pumps I used, but if they are using ethanol their labeling requirements could be different. I don’t think they are using ethanol but would have to verify that.

Best,
DeVern


Best,
DeVern
 
akbeemer said:
FortNine got out of his depth on the stabilizer eval. The test methodology used doesn't allow for meaningful conclusions.
Click to expand...

I hope he chooses to go back and revisit this.

I think Project Farm has come a long way with this methodologies, but I agree he will never be lab-quality. However, do I really need my sawzall blades to be tested in a million-dollar lab or are we at a "good enough" stage?

And now back to ethanol...
 
Google finds:
"At present, the majority of EU member states use E5 petrol in their vehicles. ... In January, Denmark, Hungary, Lithuania and Slovakia became the latest countries to introduce E10 to their forecourts, bringing the total number of EU member states to sell the fuel at the majority of retail stations to 13."
 
Just to throw some "gas on the fire", ethanol blended fuels are a no-go in general aviation aircraft. And yes motorcycles are not aircraft, despite what some of us believe or how we ride.

In engines, not designed for ethanol blended fuels, the ethanol can cause damage to fuel lines, engine components, etc. The ethanol component also attracts water, which is a very bad thing to have in your fuel when flying. It's also "banned" in a wide variety of vehicles and especially in older vehicles.

Does it work in an engine/vehicle designed to use it, well yes. As for myself, gas doesn't stay in any of my vehicles long enough for the water attraction issue to become...well an issue. Do I and a lot of other people like using it, well no. But do we have a choice, well no on that too. You use what's available and ride what you have.
 
PGlaves said:
Google finds:
"At present, the majority of EU member states use E5 petrol in their vehicles. ... In January, Denmark, Hungary, Lithuania and Slovakia became the latest countries to introduce E10 to their forecourts, bringing the total number of EU member states to sell the fuel at the majority of retail stations to 13."
Click to expand...

Thank you!

Best,
DeVern
 
r184 said:
The ethanol component also attracts water, which is a very bad thing to have in your fuel when flying.
Click to expand...

Does it attract water or does it absorb water that is in the tanks due to condesation? At the end of the day, all club aircraft would have their tanks filled to minimize condensation. In any case, you would do a fuel drain at each location, up to four sometimes, before a fill or each flight.
 
r184 said:
Just to throw some "gas on the fire", ethanol blended fuels are a no-go in general aviation aircraft. And yes motorcycles are not aircraft, despite what some of us believe or how we ride.

In engines, not designed for ethanol blended fuels, the ethanol can cause damage to fuel lines, engine components, etc. The ethanol component also attracts water, which is a very bad thing to have in your fuel when flying. It's also "banned" in a wide variety of vehicles and especially in older vehicles.

Does it work in an engine/vehicle designed to use it, well yes. As for myself, gas doesn't stay in any of my vehicles long enough for the water attraction issue to become...well an issue. Do I and a lot of other people like using it, well no. But do we have a choice, well no on that too. You use what's available and ride what you have.
Click to expand...

Unlike my boat, where I upgraded the fuel lines, replaced the fuel pump, rebuilt the carbs, and used an additive, all aviation stuff must be approved for aviation, requiring lots of testing if you deviate from the original in any way. So you can not use an unapproved additive, unapproved fuel line, unapproved fuel pump, unapproved anything, with the exception of home built. No ethanol no way. It is not just water.

Rod
 
Many times on this blog I have seen advice to pour in a bottle of RED HEET to, I assume, absorb water in the gas tank bottom from tainted fuel.
HEET contains Alcohol among other things, but it looks to me Alcohol is the main ingredient.
I think it mixes with the water in the bottom of the tank and holds it in suspension to be burned gradually, not in big power killing slugs.
I'm no chemist, is alcohol the same as Ethanol?
I goggled it but not sure...
FWIW
Nick
 
nickrides said:
Many times on this blog I have seen advice to pour in a bottle of RED HEET to, I assume, absorb water in the gas tank bottom from tainted fuel.
HEET contains Alcohol among other things, but it looks to me Alcohol is the main ingredient………
I'm no chemist, is alcohol the same as Ethanol?
Nick
Click to expand...

Red Heet is isopropyl alcohol. Yellow Heet is Methyl alcohol. There are many formulations of alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol is definitely not the same as ethanol.
 
Corn-farming agribusiness loves ethanol...AND it's doing wonders for the Oglala underground water. The Kehins in my Triumph are well aware of it. Finally all "support" for it seems to be based on how minimal the harm/performance-detriment not how much better than unethanoled gas it is. I'd rather use less good energy than more bad. Ditto rare-earth based stuff and the dubious net net benefits of wind and solar. Sure, add them to the mix- slowly and juduciously- don't dump 'em on us all willy-nilly.
 
lkchris said:
If you can stand it, some technical stuff on fuel (from Porsche club)

https://youtu.be/TqAvHZTYgQ4
Click to expand...

Porsche Canada has an Ultra 94 GT3 Cup Challenge race series and maybe that is why some or many Porsche owners use Petro-Canada Ultra 94. I did for a while in my Porsche 991.1 GTS.

Last summer I switched to Shell V-Power 91 and when I did, I noticed a big difference in how it ran. Nope, not my imagination as I listen to engines...comes from my days in aviation. To be fair, the fuel that it replaced (Ultra 94) was in the vehicle all winter (6+ months) and maybe that might have made a difference from the Ultra 94 to Shell V-Power. I have always used Shell V-Power in my Porsche 993 as well. I'll stick with it in both my Porsches.

I noted from the Top Tier web site that Petro-Canada is not on the list, buy Shell is.

Going back to the first post, Ultra 94 had 9.125% ethanol while Shell V-Power 91 had 1.25% ethanol.

Used to be a PCA member for a few years, but their monthly magazine hardly ever gets into anything technical. I think it is more geared towards "key turners" a phrase I coined a long time ago. I'd be better off with a subscription to Excellence.
 
lkchris said:
If you can stand it, some technical stuff on fuel (from Porsche club)

https://youtu.be/TqAvHZTYgQ4
Click to expand...

Good thing I watched the video to the end.

That explains what I questioned in my post #12. So the Super Unleaded 87 (with ethanol) is using a lower base octane which is then boosted with ethanol to get an 87, whereas the non-ethanol 87 right next to it uses a true 87 base octane. The latter costs quite a bit more.
 
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