-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
-
Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.
The Election forum is here: Election Forum
Is a 1997 R1100 RT a bike worth considering at 25 years old?
- Thread starter chazzman
- Start date
pglaves
#13338
A 19 year old motorcycle positioned in or near an ocean side city might show a little corrosion I would think.
When I called Spiegler, I told them that I had bar backs and they took that into consideration when producing my order.
Very low mileage. Besides brake lines and HES re-wire, that bike will need a rear wheel if you remove the sidecar.
52184
GTRider
If the rig was professionally set up the bike would also need the front end set back to standard trail. It’s common to use a machined spacer to alter the trail on a telelever assigned to sidecar duty. Not difficult to remove, in most cases.
Best,
DeVern
Hello Kevin
Having owned a Kenna sidecar, I can confirm the one shown in the picture is a Kenna.
As to the 97 R1100Rt. The usual items that went wrong with these bikes was related to rear ends, pivot bearings, driveshafts, cam chain tightner and throttle plate wear on the right side throttle body. Somebody else has already pointed out the ignition sensor. I can't remember exactly if it was in 97 or not, but the bike got an updated transmission for years 98-2000.
Covid and the resulting supply problems with bike manufacturers has caused the prices of used bikes to go up. ( at least up here ) I call it the Covid premium as many companies can't supply much new product. So you might have to look at the price as it does seem a bit high.
If some of the items I noted haven't been dealt with, be prepared to spend some money on the bike. Its been my experience over 50 years buying, selling and riding bikes, its not hard to put $1000 into a used bike that you thought was pretty good. There are always things with a used bike. The R1100 series where not a bad bike, I've owned two, 2000 R1100R and 1999 R1100s, but the non S models, where down on power compared to the newer bikes. If it was me I would look for something newer in the R1200 series.
Covid and the resulting supply problems with bike manufacturers has caused the prices of used bikes to go up. ( at least up here ) I call it the Covid premium as many companies can't supply much new product. So you might have to look at the price as it does seem a bit high.
If some of the items I noted haven't been dealt with, be prepared to spend some money on the bike. Its been my experience over 50 years buying, selling and riding bikes, its not hard to put $1000 into a used bike that you thought was pretty good. There are always things with a used bike. The R1100 series where not a bad bike, I've owned two, 2000 R1100R and 1999 R1100s, but the non S models, where down on power compared to the newer bikes. If it was me I would look for something newer in the R1200 series.
lkchris
Active member
Yet to be mentioned is the most significant elephant in the room regarding Oilheads.
Oilheads are the first bikes BMW produced following new German legal requirements that automotive parts be biodegradable.
For Oilheads this means as designed degradation of wiring harness sleeves and even wire insulation itself. Especially where affixed with cable ties. This is the cause of hall effect sensor failure, for example.
I'd carefully inspect any prospective purchase to determine condition of all wiring and make decision based on how much work I'd need to do.
Most Oilheads require replacement of rubber brake lines for same reason.
Next generation BMW have CAN bus electrical systems, significantly reducing amount of wiring. Cable ties are seldom used, replaced by rubber straps. Brake lines are no longer rubber.
When I ordered a complete replacement handlebar switch and wiring harness (left) for my R1100S, I was advised it was the last one available.
Oilheads are the first bikes BMW produced following new German legal requirements that automotive parts be biodegradable.
For Oilheads this means as designed degradation of wiring harness sleeves and even wire insulation itself. Especially where affixed with cable ties. This is the cause of hall effect sensor failure, for example.
I'd carefully inspect any prospective purchase to determine condition of all wiring and make decision based on how much work I'd need to do.
Most Oilheads require replacement of rubber brake lines for same reason.
Next generation BMW have CAN bus electrical systems, significantly reducing amount of wiring. Cable ties are seldom used, replaced by rubber straps. Brake lines are no longer rubber.
When I ordered a complete replacement handlebar switch and wiring harness (left) for my R1100S, I was advised it was the last one available.
m_stock10506
Well-known member
With all respect, I think you have overstated the problem. The Hall effect wiring problem has nothing to do with biodegradable wiring. The HES wire harness was made with the wrong type of wire. The wiring used wasn’t able to withstand the high heat cycle environment that its located. Other than the HES wiring, I haven’t seen any wire insulation failures on my 1100RT. Yes, the outer cover over the wire bundle is crumbling and falling apart. But that’s really just an annoyance.
I think the original rubber brake hoses are failing because they are 20+ years old.
senseamidmadness
Neglected Bike Adopter
Vulcanized rubber is all effectively biodegradable in automotive use, so that isn't really unique to BMW Oilheads. Motorcycle parts do get a lot more UV and oxygen exposure than comparable car parts so the rubber often breaks down faster.
Have you ever seen a set of worn-out OEM suspension bushings on a car? They start as firm but pliable black rubber, and after years of bending and road spray they shrink and crack and eventually crumble into dust.
Something I always say to my friends who are looking for bikes is: on any used motorcycle beyond about 10 years old, all rubber parts are suspect until proven otherwise. Brand doesn't matter since nobody's figured out how to make an immortal rubber yet.
Have you ever seen a set of worn-out OEM suspension bushings on a car? They start as firm but pliable black rubber, and after years of bending and road spray they shrink and crack and eventually crumble into dust.
Something I always say to my friends who are looking for bikes is: on any used motorcycle beyond about 10 years old, all rubber parts are suspect until proven otherwise. Brand doesn't matter since nobody's figured out how to make an immortal rubber yet.
ksdcr
Member
I agree with most of your assessment, regarding aging rubber components, whether it be car suspension, or motorcycle wiring.
With that in mind, what can be done to prolong the useful life of said wiring and other rubber components?
Perhaps liberal application of a chemical agent? Encasing the wiring in Vaseline?
I am posing the question sincerely, looking for ideas. Many oilheads are 15,20 even 25 years old, and still perform well. I’d like to find a way to keep mine that way, without replacing every wiring harness, rubber part etc.
With that in mind, what can be done to prolong the useful life of said wiring and other rubber components?
Perhaps liberal application of a chemical agent? Encasing the wiring in Vaseline?
I am posing the question sincerely, looking for ideas. Many oilheads are 15,20 even 25 years old, and still perform well. I’d like to find a way to keep mine that way, without replacing every wiring harness, rubber part etc.
senseamidmadness
Neglected Bike Adopter
The most vulnerable part of any automotive wiring system is its bare metal parts -- this usually means terminals and connectors. Your biggest enemy is corrosion. What I do to fight it is use electrical contact cleaner and then dielectric (silicone) grease at terminals whenever I pop them open for the first time on a project. The grease won't short anything out and keeps the oxygen away. More severe corrosion can be fought with metal polish (if you can get it into the terminals, rub it in, and then get it back out again with isopropyl) but small terminals that are too far gone need replacement. I'm handy with a soldering iron and I replace mine with leaded solder when necessary but crimp connectors, the not-cheap kind and crimped with the proper tools, work just fine too.
I'm not entirely sure about the "biodegradable wire insulation" claim made above. Personally I've never seen modern-ish automotive wiring insulation degrade just with the passage of time even on old vehicles. I believe all the insulation is plastic compounds or Teflon compounds and has been for decades now. The only failure modes I've ever seen have been due to owner abuse, corrosion, and wear caused by poor installation.
The last of these three is a known issue with early Oilheads; the wiring harness was fastened too tight to the headstock of the motorcycle from the factory, which puts strain on the wires and their jacket and can cause abrasive failure over time from steering, or it can pull terminals out of place. It's easily fixable with snips and zip ties before the failures occur and I did so on my bike. If it isn't caught until after the failure happens then it gets a bit difficult.
My own Oilhead hasn't had any problems with the wiring harness and the previous owner left it sitting in his yard uncovered for 3 years. The wiring harness next to the steering head even received direct sunlight during that time. I imagine if the wiring were biodegradable I'd certainly be having tricky electrical issues.
Even a 1980 Honda CB750K project I'm working on didn't have any issues with the insulation; its only problems were from corroded terminals and abuse by the previous owners. I had to replace the harness entirely on that bike due to how many places the previous owner had snipped it and made questionable modifications. I bought a used complete harness from Ebay, same year and model, and used the factory wiring diagram to test it with a multimeter. Every wire checked out just fine. Obviously that's not an apples to apples comparison but it's one thing I've seen firsthand.
I'm not entirely sure about the "biodegradable wire insulation" claim made above. Personally I've never seen modern-ish automotive wiring insulation degrade just with the passage of time even on old vehicles. I believe all the insulation is plastic compounds or Teflon compounds and has been for decades now. The only failure modes I've ever seen have been due to owner abuse, corrosion, and wear caused by poor installation.
The last of these three is a known issue with early Oilheads; the wiring harness was fastened too tight to the headstock of the motorcycle from the factory, which puts strain on the wires and their jacket and can cause abrasive failure over time from steering, or it can pull terminals out of place. It's easily fixable with snips and zip ties before the failures occur and I did so on my bike. If it isn't caught until after the failure happens then it gets a bit difficult.
My own Oilhead hasn't had any problems with the wiring harness and the previous owner left it sitting in his yard uncovered for 3 years. The wiring harness next to the steering head even received direct sunlight during that time. I imagine if the wiring were biodegradable I'd certainly be having tricky electrical issues.
Even a 1980 Honda CB750K project I'm working on didn't have any issues with the insulation; its only problems were from corroded terminals and abuse by the previous owners. I had to replace the harness entirely on that bike due to how many places the previous owner had snipped it and made questionable modifications. I bought a used complete harness from Ebay, same year and model, and used the factory wiring diagram to test it with a multimeter. Every wire checked out just fine. Obviously that's not an apples to apples comparison but it's one thing I've seen firsthand.
RPGR90s
Member
A lot of guys put hundreds of thousands of miles on Oilheads (115k on my '04 RT), but like anything, some maintenance items stand out as has been discussed.
One thing that I'm impressed about my bike, is that the heads have never been off it. Compression is the same as it was new and no evidence of any carbon buildup.
It's probably down a bit on power, but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Personally, I think the Oilhead motor is one of BMW's best.
I pulled the Trigger...
Sorry for the late reply. I've been distracted with life.
Yes, I did end up purchasing the bike. The items that appear most frequently as typical issues with R1100's are not beyond the scope of my capabilities, so in the event that I need to perform the upgrades I guess I'll suck it up.
Thank you all for sharing your insight.
So, 35 posts later, did Chazzman buy this bike? The public has a right to know!
Sorry for the late reply. I've been distracted with life.
Yes, I did end up purchasing the bike. The items that appear most frequently as typical issues with R1100's are not beyond the scope of my capabilities, so in the event that I need to perform the upgrades I guess I'll suck it up.
Thank you all for sharing your insight.
41107
New member
Bmw is making wire insulation from Soy beans that will biodegrade with time.Mice like it.
