100 milers in Utah—mph, that is

akbeemer said:

I understand being uncomfortable with this kind of justice, but I think it is admirable in most ways. It was quick, which I think has a positive impact on the offenders. It was evidently not unfair, or at least you do not assert that your friend was not guilty. And, it showed an element of mercy. You seem offended that they accepted the amount that the group could muster in lieu of the amount set by the court. Would it have been better if the judge had said that your friend should be put in jail until the full amount was paid? A quick court held in a gas station that renders a just verdict and shows some leniency in the penalty, is every bit as appropriate as a court that meets two months later, in a giant marble clad edifice, with distinguished well paid attorneys and honorable, black robe clad judges.

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I'm offended because this was the type of activity I might have expected in some 3rd world country. I guess I'm used to a justice system which doesn't require one to pay cash to police officers.

The reason I put "Court" in quotation marks was there was no judge involved. The word kangaroo comes to mind.

akbeemer said:

I understand being uncomfortable with this kind of justice, but I think it is admirable in most ways. It was quick, which I think has a positive impact on the offenders. It was evidently not unfair, or at least you do not assert that your friend was not guilty. And, it showed an element of mercy. You seem offended that they accepted the amount that the group could muster in lieu of the amount set by the court. Would it have been better if the judge had said that your friend should be put in jail until the full amount was paid? A quick court held in a gas station that renders a just verdict and shows some leniency in the penalty, is every bit as appropriate as a court that meets two months later, in a giant marble clad edifice, with distinguished well paid attorneys and honorable, black robe clad judges.

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We'll have to agree to disagree here. It doesn't look like justice to me--rather I think it makes the police officers look corrupt. It makes me wonder whether or not the fines went into appropriate city or county coffers. Granted, I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the police officers probably pocketed the cash. It's this type of activity that can give police officers a bad reputation. That being said, I'd rather pay the cash on the spot and not have it go on my record, but that doesn't make it right. So, maybe it gives them a good reputation. Just my two cents.

88bmwjeff said:

We'll have to agree to disagree here. It doesn't look like justice to me--rather I think it makes the police officers look corrupt. It makes me wonder whether or not the fines went into appropriate city or county coffers. Granted, I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the police officers probably pocketed the cash. It's this type of activity that can give police officers a bad reputation. That being said, I'd rather pay the cash on the spot and not have it go on my record, but that doesn't make it right. So, maybe it gives them a good reputation. Just my two cents.

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Yeah, this is country "justice" of the best kind. However, I've seen many speeding ticket rackets that were all to official in all appearances. The cop writes an official ticket even though there wasn't a speeding violation. Big fine or court date, with the idea that someone from out of state wouldn't take the time to fight a ticket in court so will just pay the $200+ fine. In one case, the two friends of mine involved did go back to court and the cop failed to appear (for obvious reasons) so the ticket was dismissed. It probably cost them close to the fine for travel costs and a one-nigth motel, but they wanted justice. To me there was no justice in any of that.

If I have earned a performance award, and the fine is the going rate, and I can pay cash and ride away, I'm all over that. Since I believe a lot of speed limits are artificially low and therefore unjust, and that bike and car insurance companies use any excuses to raise your rate, then if I can pay half the price of a new tire to have it just go away from my record I'm in.

Maybe that makes me a partner in the "corruption", but I remember during the national 55 MPH speed limit on all Interstates how many people I knew who got a "speeding" ticket for going over 55 but less than 70 and had their insurance go way up. The insurance companies knew there was no speeding involved, but since put the money into their pockets anyway.

It would be so much simpler if we just didn't have speed limits.

The last several messages remind me of an experience that a friend of mine had in a Southern court quite a few years ago. I'll mention just one part of his experience, which is incredible in total.

He seated himself in one section of the courtroom, while waiting his turn. The judge ordered him to stand up, and said that he knew that my friend was from out of town. "How do you know?" asked my friend. "Because you're standing in the [n-word] seats," the judge replied. (My friend is white.)

Regardless

While I can appreciate the debate between cops taking cash and letting a speeder off the hook or, a trial later and so on, all I can say is now, the situation is beyond a joke. Due to the rampant amount of speeding and the inability to stop it, actions taken by many courts in my riding area have become a nightmare. The do gooders, have added large fixed fines on top of the fines that were generally set, so no matter what, a person is going to pay a big buck if caught. Electronic record keeping in many courts now also means no more letting a driver off the hook with the insurance companies.

Speeding has become a huge problem, common sense by drivers is disappearing only to be replaced by the ham handed "law and order" of the do gooders. The old days of a modest fine and warning not to do it again are gone. The speeders themselves have themselves to take the blame. The majority in most cases will not tolerate a minority that does not play by the "rules." Speeding is fun, but the majority doesn't see it that way and the majority is not always just. St.

88bmwjeff said:

We'll have to agree to disagree here. It doesn't look like justice to me--rather I think it makes the police officers look corrupt. It makes me wonder whether or not the fines went into appropriate city or county coffers. Granted, I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the police officers probably pocketed the cash. It's this type of activity that can give police officers a bad reputation. That being said, I'd rather pay the cash on the spot and not have it go on my record, but that doesn't make it right. So, maybe it gives them a good reputation. Just my two cents.

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Running hard from LA to Boston in 73, got stopped by a Texas dps officer doing 90-95 in a 65 about 3am on a desolate stretch of road. Told me I'd have to follow him to the jail and sit till the judge got in in the morning cause I was out of state.

Told him why I had to get home and was hurrying to do so. Asked him what the fine might cost me. He replied 200.00. Asked him if he could take it and give it to the judge in the morning, I really needed to be heading east. He said they don't usually do that but he'd take the funds and I could be on my way.

I don't give a rats patoot if he pocketed the money, I was back on the road instead of sitting in a cell waiting on court when they convened in the morning. You can pay Peter, or you can pay Paul, but in each case, you're paying. Taking the road less painful seems like a no brainer when one has a choice.

tmass said:

This is like the state of VA where going 81 in 70 is a criminal ticket and requires a mandatory court appearance.

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Virginia changed the law. That limit was when the highest posted speed limits were 65MPH. If the interstate is posted at 70 MPH, if you get caught at 85 or higher, it will not be good.

var1200rt said:

Virginia changed the law. That limit was when the highest posted speed limits were 65MPH. If the interstate is posted at 70 MPH, if you get caught at 85 or higher, it will not be good.

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Laws keep changing. But in my younger days in most states 15 mph over the posted limit was prima facia reckless driving. In my brain that is still the case. I agree that 80 in a 65 is not the same as 35 in a 20 school zone, but it used to be.

p.s. The two-lane state highway past our house is posted at 75. And alas, my G310GS won't hit 90 unless I have a tail wind so I imagine I might be safe from the onerous reckless driving charge.

PGlaves said:

Laws keep changing. But in my younger days in most states 15 mph over the posted limit was prima facia reckless driving. In my brain that is still the case. I agree that 80 in a 65 is not the same as 35 in a 20 school zone, but it used to be.

p.s. The two-lane state highway past our house is posted at 75. And alas, my G310GS won't hit 90 unless I have a tail wind so I imagine I might be safe from the onerous reckless driving charge.

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We,ve been stopped doing 15 over a few times.
Two times the ticket was reduced to 10 over and did not cost much. Debbie got warnings.
One time the Highway patrol was going to give us both a ticket but I talked him into only giving me a ticket.
Another time I had slowed down to let Debbie catch me after she got around some cars. Highway Patrol got her at 15 over coming out of a curve.
She told the guy I was not waiting for her and she did not know where I was headed or where we were spending the night.
The Highway Patrol chewed me out for being a inconsiderate husband and gave Debbie a warning.
She has used the mean husband story a few times to get warnings.

She has good luck with blaming me and using sad puppy eyes and I'm fine with that

Ma. state police would give you a pass at 72, write for 73 and over in a 65mph zone.

When I worked uniform, I gave 15, wrote for 16 over. It was merely a 60.00 ticket, not criminal [ 10 for the first 10 over and 10 for every mile over after that ]. One of my academy instructors was small town chief, he wouldn't let his leo's write for anything less than 15 over to save the tickets being thrown out of court while it cost him the officers court time.

In Az. vehicular endangerment is 85 and over in a 75 zone. I'm rarely going to see that speed myself, so it's not really something I ever worry about. In a 75mph zone, I expect 80 would get a pass on a ticket in this state. if you're doing the speed limit here on the freeways, you're being passed all day long.

I do have to watch the 20 over on surface roads. I easily crank the surface roads out here often enough.

GTRider said:

UHP announced yesterday that to date this year they have arrested or cited 3500 motor vehicle operators for speeds at or above 100mph on Utah roads. That’s a big increase from years past, and part of it is attributed to the fact that with more people staying home/working from home many of the roads have been more empty than normal, thus inducing people to run higher speeds. I wish they had stats on how many of those cited were MC operators.

To quote Phil Esterhouse, “Let’s be careful out there”.

Best,
DeVern

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Like Michael Cimino, John Milius, and Rita M. Fink wrote in the screenplay for Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations." If a person doesn't know their limitations, they're an accident waiting to happen. Unfortunately, too many people don't know their limitations. Those are the ones that, for the most part, cause traffic fatalities.

E

Got pulled over just outside of Jemez, NM. The local LEO told me, "The law is tough this side of the Rio Grande". LEO told me to follow him... to the judge's house. Judge came out of his house in his bathrobe, said the fine is $100 - CASH. Luckily I had a Benjamin in my wallet. Paid up and rode away, knowing that the judge and his pet LEO had just made themselves some beer money.

craydds said:

Got pulled over just outside of Jemez, NM. The local LEO told me, "The law is tough this side of the Rio Grande". LEO told me to follow him... to the judge's house. Judge came out of his house in his bathrobe, said the fine is $100 - CASH. Luckily I had a Benjamin in my wallet. Paid up and rode away, knowing that the judge and his pet LEO had just made themselves some beer money.

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A friend of mine was a Iowa state trooper and he said in some areas, they had justices of the peace adjudicate tickets. One time he and his partner pulled someone over for speeding and my friend was so hung over that he couldn't write the ticket, but the partner wrote it in his name. Don't ask me why, IDK. Anyway, the woman contests the ticket and they have to go out to the justice's house and court was on the front porch. She reads the ticket and and the woman says, that isn't who wrote the ticket, it was the other guy. The justice says, are you calling my boys liars? Guilty. Fine doubled. Sometimes it's better to just STFU.

brownie0486 said:

Ma. state police would give you a pass at 72, write for 73 and over in a 65mph zone.

When I worked uniform, I gave 15, wrote for 16 over. It was merely a 60.00 ticket, not criminal [ 10 for the first 10 over and 10 for every mile over after that ]. One of my academy instructors was small town chief, he wouldn't let his leo's write for anything less than 15 over to save the tickets being thrown out of court while it cost him the officers court time.

In Az. vehicular endangerment is 85 and over in a 75 zone. I'm rarely going to see that speed myself, so it's not really something I ever worry about. In a 75mph zone, I expect 80 would get a pass on a ticket in this state. if you're doing the speed limit here on the freeways, you're being passed all day long.

I do have to watch the 20 over on surface roads. I easily crank the surface roads out here often enough.

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I was written by the Mass. State Police for 6 over on Rt. 2 one time. I'm just riding along on my K75C and got pulled, then got all the attitude from the trooper that the Mass. staties are famous for, despite being polite. Then I got a ticket for 6 over. 6 over. WTF?

ponch1 said:

A friend of mine was a Iowa state trooper and he said in some areas, they had justices of the peace adjudicate tickets. One time he and his partner pulled someone over for speeding and my friend was so hung over that he couldn't write the ticket, but the partner wrote it in his name. Don't ask me why, IDK. Anyway, the woman contests the ticket and they have to go out to the justice's house and court was on the front porch. She reads the ticket and and the woman says, that isn't who wrote the ticket, it was the other guy. The justice says, are you calling my boys liars? Guilty. Fine doubled. Sometimes it's better to just STFU.

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Just to be clear, the other guy wrote the ticket, then put the other guy's name on it because one cop was on duty, but too hung over to write a ticket?

That's good law enforcement? A guy too hung over to write something is OK to drive around in a car with a firearm and make legal decisions that affect other people's lives?

Jeez. I thought we all lived under equal application of the law here or something.

kbasa said:

Jeez. I thought we all lived under equal application of the law here or something.

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Since you believe that, I have some beachfront property to sell to you here in the Texas Big Bend. (No Imogi)

kbasa said:

I was written by the Mass. State Police for 6 over on Rt. 2 one time. I'm just riding along on my K75C and got pulled, then got all the attitude from the trooper that the Mass. staties are famous for, despite being polite. Then I got a ticket for 6 over. 6 over. WTF?

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I know of people getting hit for one over in Windsor Heights IA. I've had them follow me through town just see if I went over at all. Small town cops are so bad in Iowa that the state will grace two tickets a year if they are less than 10 over. No one would have a license.

In another life, I dated a NYC cop. She got her quotas during roll call and if someone didn't write their quota, they lost their RMP and got the cushman. If it's summer or winter, that sucked as no heat or AC.

ponch1 said:

I know of people getting hit for one over in Windsor Heights IA. I've had them follow me through town just see if I went over at all. Small town cops are so bad in Iowa that the state will grace two tickets a year if they are less than 10 over. No one would have a license.

In another life, I dated a NYC cop. She got her quotas during roll call and if someone didn't write their quota, they lost their RMP and got the cushman. If it's summer or winter, that sucked as no heat or AC.

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In defense of many officers, it is the brass to an extent and the politicians to a greater extent that pose the problem. The officers I know trapped in these situations don't like it any more than we do.

PGlaves said:

Since you believe that, I have some beachfront property to sell to you here in the Texas Big Bend. (No Imogi)

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Sorry, been working in legal for 40 years because rule of law is a necessary barrier to autocracy and cults of personality.

Reference materials: Magna Carta, US Constitution, and Bill of Rights.

PGlaves said:

In defense of many officers, it is the brass to an extent and the politicians to a greater extent that pose the problem. The officers I know trapped in these situations don't like it any more than we do.

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Oh, true story. She didn't like it at all, but who wants to be in a cushman in January or July in the Bronx? It's revenue generation. Same with parking tickets. You'd be shocked at the revenue NYC "brownies" generate.