Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 61

Thread: Tiny metal flakes on the drain plug -- should I be worried about my transmission?

  1. #16
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    2,324
    It's a bit hard to say since it wasn't all clean oil when you changed, but if the oil is turning dark so quickly and you get the burnt smell, you need to deal with the input shaft. Could be that the bearing is getting pushed hard enough by the gear that it is failing.
    Anton Largiader 72724
    Tech articles - YouTube
    Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt BMW motorcycle service and repair in central Virginia

  2. #17
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    It's a bit hard to say since it wasn't all clean oil when you changed, but if the oil is turning dark so quickly and you get the burnt smell, you need to deal with the input shaft. Could be that the bearing is getting pushed hard enough by the gear that it is failing.
    Do you think it would be dangerous to put off transmission removal until the next service interval at 42,000 miles? It currently has 36,140 or so. And have you ever seen any input shaft gear/bearing failures near this mileage?


    Also, an update related to previous posts in the thread. I drained out the Red Line from my transmission and put in the Castrol today. I really thoroughly cleaned the drain plug again out of curiosity and it looked like it had just a bit of anti-seize compound stuck to the sides of the magnet. Sparkly, but all metal pieces so small that I couldn't feel them.
    I also changed out my clutch cable (the old one had cracks in the outer sheath and visible rust inside) and set the free play and the barrel adjuster to the 7mm/12mm spec.

    First ride impressions are...well, not great, comparatively. It's exactly the way it was with the Mobil mix before the Red Line. Clunky, noisy, and whiny. Significant whine on acceleration, worse on deceleration in gear. Shifts feel like they take a bit more force to achieve and I can hear and feel them a lot more. It functions fine, other than me adapting to the "correct" clutch adjustment (it feels so different now that it had to have been very wrong the way the previous owner set it) and the oddly more difficult pull with the new cable. However, the Red Line made a big difference in noise and feel and I'm surprised that it seems significantly worse with the Castrol.

    I don't regret pulling out that previous gear oil because it had no testing standards anywhere on it, but it makes me wonder whether there's an additive or another oil I could use to do what it did. Or maybe my transmission is just on the way out and I have no frame of reference -- is noisy and whiny and clunky normal?
    Last edited by senseamidmadness; 11-26-2021 at 10:26 AM.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  3. #18
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by senseamidmadness View Post
    Do you think it would be dangerous to put off transmission removal until the next service interval at 42,000 miles?
    Well, you're describing transmission failure with practically every sentence you write. The worst one I saw had the owner (passing through) flying home to Canada while I trailered his bike from his motel to my shop. Maybe yours will go a while before you get to that point, but I sure can't predict for how long.
    Anton Largiader 72724
    Tech articles - YouTube
    Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt BMW motorcycle service and repair in central Virginia

  4. #19
    Registered User jrogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Nor-Cal
    Posts
    59
    They are fairly noisy and clunky to begin with. Do you have another to compare with in your area?
    02 R1150R ABS, 04 R1150R, 04 R1100S BCR, 05 R1100S BCR, 16 S1000XR

  5. #20
    Left Coast Rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    4,382
    Quote Originally Posted by jrogers View Post
    They are fairly noisy and clunky to begin with. Do you have another to compare with in your area?
    I have to add my two cents. Clunky, yes. Noisy, no.

    To the OP, read the first sentence of post #18 again and then make your decision.

  6. #21
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    Well, you're describing transmission failure with practically every sentence you write. The worst one I saw had the owner (passing through) flying home to Canada while I trailered his bike from his motel to my shop. Maybe yours will go a while before you get to that point, but I sure can't predict for how long.
    Yeeeeeowch.

    So I need to open up the transmission and address that input shaft gear and bearing ASAP...or just find a replacement transmission?

    With only 36k miles on mine and the used ones I can see on Ebay having either unknown mileage or double what mine has, I'm leaning towards soft rebuild. Ideally replace all the bearings and seals and that input shaft gear. It'd be more expensive than a used unit but it might be the best option for what I have. Would give me the opportunity to do a spline lube and some other maintenance I had planned, too, like checking on the swingarm bearings.

    I'll start tallying up how much the parts are going to cost. Ouch.

    Edit: I just realized I hadn't been thinking about what the noise is and how it appears, and I've had a prior relevant experience.

    Story time: I owned a 2007 Subaru Outback previously that would make a very similar whining noise that varied with speed -- its center differential had a failed carrier bearing, and that was the culprit. When I opened up the differential case and pulled the diff itself out I discovered that a previous owner had welded the center differential closed in four places so that the power distribution between the front and rear axles was locked at 50/50. They were bad-looking welds, clearly done by some cheapo MIG gun, and three of them had already cracked. The bearing had enough play in it that I could feel it, but it wasn't horrendous compared to how loud the noise was. What I suspect is that the process of welding either toasted part of the bearing or the welder had used the bearing as a ground. Either way a dummy did it. Replacing the bearing solved the noise but I couldn't afford to replace the differential itself, as it was a $500 part. That worked well enough until I sold the car.

    Based on that experience I've had with bearing noise, that input shaft bearing must be in pretty bad shape...yipes. I'll start getting hold of the parts as soon as I can.
    Last edited by senseamidmadness; 11-27-2021 at 05:40 AM.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  7. #22
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    3,544
    If you find your input shaft splines are worn, I have a M94 shaft (23 21 2 345 512) in VG condition I'll part with. Also have other M94 internals as well
    PM me if interested
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  8. #23
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    If you find your input shaft splines are worn, I have a M94 shaft (23 21 2 345 512) in VG condition I'll part with. Also have other M94 internals as well
    PM me if interested
    That's fortunate. I'll keep that in mind when I get my transmission out. Though I'm not sure how many of the parts are compatible with my M97 (I believe it's an M97, haven't checked the number yet but build date is 08/96).

    I'm curious to know if you have the problem gear (#23212345502) lying around anywhere, too. There are not many places one can get hold of it other than BMW.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  9. #24
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    3,544
    Quote Originally Posted by senseamidmadness View Post
    That's fortunate. I'll keep that in mind when I get my transmission out. Though I'm not sure how many of the parts are compatible with my M97 (I believe it's an M97, haven't checked the number yet but build date is 08/96).

    I'm curious to know if you have the problem gear (#23212345502) lying around anywhere, too. There are not many places one can get hold of it other than BMW.
    I do, Z=20, face is in good condition as well
    Trans serial # 0003171 DAG
    I do not have the build date
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  10. #25
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    21,950
    I gather that in this condition, the gear and bearing outer surface face are rubbing. Is it the gear that has moved, or the bearing, or something else happening like the whole shaft moving??
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  11. #26
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    3,544
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I gather that in this condition, the gear and bearing outer surface face are rubbing. Is it the gear that has moved, or the bearing, or something else happening like the whole shaft moving??
    Design issue.
    Anton explains it very well.
    http://largiader.com/tech/oiltrans/m97.html
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  12. #27
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    21,950
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Design issue.
    Anton explains it very well.
    http://largiader.com/tech/oiltrans/m97.html
    Thanks
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  13. #28
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    Apologies for the poor picture quality, but when I swapped to the Castrol transmission oil I took a picture of the rag I used to wipe the transmission plug magnet.

    IMG_20211125_1527132.jpg

    Doesn't look like any long stringy bearing cage pieces to me (yet) but I'm no expert. This much didn't appear in just 40 miles, mind you. I just didn't realize during the previous change how deep the area around the magnet is and hadn't wiped it out thoroughly.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  14. #29
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    Whoops, that wasn't the picture I wanted but I'll leave it up. Here's the other picture which gives a more clear idea of the color of the sludge and the quantity of sparklies:

    IMG_20211125_1526527.jpg
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  15. #30
    Neglected Bike Adopter
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    172
    So I was perusing Youtube videos trying to get an idea of what typical Oilhead transmission noise is like, and I found this one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZrvBF5F51w

    My bike sounds pretty much identical to this R1100RT. 1st and 2nd gear have a significant whine, but it quiets down a lot in the higher gears. I can even hear the increase in volume and change in pitch when the rider decelerates in 2nd gear. The big clunks when shifting also sound identical to mine.

    Folks with a lot more experience with more bikes than me, are those all normal Oilhead noises?


    I'm not trying to get out of working on my transmission, mind you. Brown transmission fluid isn't good regardless of noises.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

Similar Threads

  1. 2005 K1200S Metal Wires on Magnetic Drain Plug
    By dkmbmwmoa in forum Wedge K-bikes
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-12-2016, 05:44 AM
  2. Transmission drain plug
    By DennyPink in forum Hexheads/Camheads
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-01-2015, 04:48 PM
  3. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-07-2011, 05:45 PM
  4. metal flakes in final drive (revisited)
    By typ181r90 in forum Airheads
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 03:28 AM
  5. metal flakes in final drive
    By typ181r90 in forum Airheads
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-11-2009, 04:22 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •