1991 K75 RT , checking splines ??

My 1991 K 75 RT ,which I bought 7 weeks ago, from a man who was right up on all the maintenance , has both wheels off at the moment. After riding it 4,500 km's I just had new tires put on.
The bike has 86,500 km's on it now ,and although the previous owner had the splines done recently , since the wheels are off I'm wondering how to check them .

I can't ride because it's raining and cold here in Alberta, and I have nothing to do ..

The Clymer book shows after dropping the exhaust and undoing the shock ,and brake plus a few minor things ( my wheel is off now) that by removing the 4 bolts the rear drive assembly should pull out. Is this the spline that I hear about ? I read quite a few places where peole took their bikes it is a dealer , by what I read ,this sounds pretty straight forward, and something a person with the inclination to remiove the wheel ,could do as well. What have I overlooked ?
Earlier I asked about checking the rear hub /wheel bearing, and after getting your reponse on here I'm not thinking of ever doing that.
While reading about replacing the rear hub bearing I got the idea that doing (greasing ) the spline was not a hard jiob.
Anyway I'm only curious now, (or so I tell myself ).

What I do is as follows:

1. Remove the wheel.

2. Drain the oil from the final drive to avoid a mess later.

3. Remove the small capscrew and pull the speedometer sensor from the final drive.

OOOPS! I forgot to list remove the brake caliper from the final drive and hang it so there is no stress on the brake line.

4. Remove the nut and lockwasher from the top shock mount bolt. Leave the bolt in place.

5. Loosen but do not remove the nut on the lower shock mount stud on the final drive.

6. Remove the four fasteners holding the final drive and the rear of the swing arm together.

7. Firmly grasp the final drive and remove the top shock mount bolt. Having a helper pull the bolt out helps.
Absent a helper I support the final drive with a scissors jack while I pull out the shock mount bolt.

8. Allow the swing arm to pivot downward allowing the shock top to pull out of it frame mount.

9. Pull the final drive rearward to disengage it from the swing arm.

10. Now the male splines on the pinion gear and the female splines in the driveshaft are visible.
Thoroughly clean the female splines in the driveshaft (can be done in place) and the male spines on the final drive ( I do this on the workbench which is why I drained the oil so I lay the final drive down.

11. Apply a good moly grease containing at least 25% powdered moly by volume. I use the TS Moly Spline Lube product developed by Guard Dog Moly but now sold by TS Moly. I think The Beemer Shop carries it, as does Sierra BMW, and maybe Beemer Boneyard. I apply an even coating using a small soldering flux brush.

12-22 Assemble in reverse order. DO NOT FORGET TO REFILL THE FINAL DRIVE.

Here's a video from Chris Harris that may help you too:

Is TS-60 SG the replacement for Honda Moly 60 + SIG 3000?

Perfect timing of this thread for a question which came up for me today: is the "TS-60 SG" available from TS Moly (and Ted Porter's BeemerShop) a suitable replacement for the NLA Honda Moly 60 mixed 50/50 with Wurth SIG 3000 grease? I believe Paul Glaves deserves credit for creating that 50/50 mixture which seemed to become the standard all BMW bike spline lubrication, both clutch and rear drive. I've used it for years and it all but stops wear. The Honda Moly 60 provides high pressure lubrication and the SIG 3000 prevents fling off of the mixture.

However, the Honda Moly 60 is no long available and Wurth SIG 3000 grease comes only in a 14 oz. tube (a LOT) and you have to search to find single tube availability. As I read the TS-60 SG description on the TS Moly web page it specifically says two intriguing things: "TS-60 SG is highly adhesive and will not fling off or dry out under accelerated conditions." and "TS-60 SG is designed to lubricate all types of splined shafts, motorcycle drive splines, u-joints, swing arms, starter drive gear, bushings, pins, etc." Taken together, that sounds to me like the Paul Glaves Honda Moly/SIG 3000 mixture. Full description here: https://www.tsmoly.com/grease-spline-grease-p-367.html

Who has experience or an opinion about this? Asked for a friend who has a bunch of splines to lube.

Yes, it is now the go to lube for the splines.

Paul's Honda 60/Worth 3000 mixture became GuardDog Moly when Paul started collaborating with TS Moly. I believe it was a change of personal at TS Moly that caused them to discontinue the GuardDog. They have now slightly reformulated it (for the better according to them) and released it as TS-60. It is available through Ted Porters Beemershop in Scotts Valley, CA. It is the only currently available spline lube that I can confidently recommend for Brick splines.

98lee said:

Yes, it is now the go to lube for the splines.

Paul's Honda 60/Worth 3000 mixture became GuardDog Moly when Paul started collaborating with TS Moly. I believe it was a change of personal at TS Moly that caused them to discontinue the GuardDog. They have now slightly reformulated it (for the better according to them) and released it as TS-60. It is available through Ted Porters Beemershop in Scotts Valley, CA. It is the only currently available spline lube that I can confidently recommend for Brick splines.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Lee.

After I posted my question I then saw Paul's post on the procedure and the reference to the TS-60 SG, which seemed to be my answer right there. I still have a supply of SIG 3000 and Honda Moly 60 which should get me through the two rear drive and one clutch spline lube needed, but I want to have a source for more since I have no plans of giving up any of my K-bikes.

Short answer to a long question. After I wrote a Benchwrenching column mentioning a TS Moly Gear Lube additive for transmissions and final drives - TS Moly is an oilfield service company based in Houston - I got a call from a Vice President of the company. Ben Mathes told me he had received several phone calls about their gear oil additive which they sold in 30 gallon barrels and 5 gallon pails. He asked if I thought there was a motorccyle market for small quantities. I said yes and thus was born Guarddog Moly Lubricants, a spinoff for Ben and TS Moly.

Later we also discussed the need for a good moly grease for spline lube. I described my Honda Moly 60 mix with Sig 3000 grease making a sticky high impact grease with about 30% moly by volume. I sent Ben a sample. Guarddog came out with its 525 Moly Grease at about 25% moly by volume. This contrasts to the Sta-Lube stuff at the auto parts store which is only about 3% moly.

I talked to Ben Mathes by telephone several times as various products developed. I met Ben once when he came out to a Houston Club rally to meet me. I never had any financial interest in any of this: just helpful advice. I even bought all of my own stuff from Guarddog Moly Lubricants.

Ben Mathes retired but TS Moly is continuing some of the products formerly sold by Guarddog Moly Lubricants.

PGlaves said:

Short answer to a long question. After I wrote a Benchwrenching column mentioning a TS Moly Gear Lube additive for transmissions and final drives - TS Moly is an oilfield service company based in Houston - I got a call from a Vice President of the company. Ben Mathes told me he had received several phone calls about their gear oil additive which they sold in 30 gallon barrels and 5 gallon pails. He asked if I thought there was a motorccyle market for small quantities. I said yes and thus was born Guarddog Moly Lubricants, a spinoff for Ben and TS Moly.

Later we also discussed the need for a good moly grease for spline lube. I described my Honda Moly 60 mix with Sig 3000 grease making a sticky high impact grease with about 30% moly by volume. I sent Ben a sample. Guarddog came out with its 525 Moly Grease at about 25% moly by volume. This contrasts to the Sta-Lube stuff at the auto parts store which is only about 3% moly.

I talked to Ben Mathes by telephone several times as various products developed. I met Ben once when he came out to a Houston Club rally to meet me. I never had any financial interest in any of this: just helpful advice. I even bought all of my own stuff from Guarddog Moly Lubricants.

Ben Mathes retired but TS Moly is continuing some of the products formerly sold by Guarddog Moly Lubricants.

Click to expand...

So, is it your belief that the TS-60 contains either SIG 3000 or something like it to help it adhere to the splines like the real SIG 3000 does in the mixtures you prepared? IOW, would a person mix TS-60 with SIG 3000 or is that not needed? Thanks.

GREGFEELER said:

So, is it your belief that the TS-60 contains either SIG 3000 or something like it to help it adhere to the splines like the real SIG 3000 does in the mixtures you prepared? IOW, would a person mix TS-60 with SIG 3000 or is that not needed? Thanks.

Click to expand...

It is not needed. It is a heavy bodied grease with a moly mixture added like the Guarddog GD525 grease. It is an NLGI No.2 grease - not a moly paste like Honda Moly 60.

Splines and grease

Thanks for all the information , I not only know how to check the slpines now , but which greaes to use ..
One question , shipping anything from US to Canada costs a fortune , ie. I checked the price on a fuel filter , shipping was $34 US for one in tank filter ,which cost less ,
Would the BMW dealers not carry the correct spline grease ? I can call them, but thought I'd ask here first ,and not buy an inferior product possibly , ( no one mentioned that ,so I'm curious why not)

xcaret said:

Thanks for all the information , I not only know how to check the slpines now , but which greaes to use ..
One question , shipping anything from US to Canada costs a fortune , ie. I checked the price on a fuel filter , shipping was $34 US for one in tank filter ,which cost less ,
Would the BMW dealers not carry the correct spline grease ? I can call them, but thought I'd ask here first ,and not buy an inferior product possibly , ( no one mentioned that ,so I'm curious why not)

Click to expand...

I won't use what BMW sells for this purpose.

xcaret said:

Thanks for all the information , I not only know how to check the slpines now , but which greaes to use ..
One question , shipping anything from US to Canada costs a fortune , ie. I checked the price on a fuel filter , shipping was $34 US for one in tank filter ,which cost less ,
Would the BMW dealers not carry the correct spline grease ? I can call them, but thought I'd ask here first ,and not buy an inferior product possibly , ( no one mentioned that ,so I'm curious why not)

Click to expand...

There are many theories as to why, but the truth is that BMW has never really owned up the the need for spline lubrication on their bikes, much less have they answered the question as to why should their bikes even need clutch spline lubrication when the world is full of dry plate clutch vehicles which live fine from clutch disk to clutch disk without the need for teardown lubrication. The "grease" they have sold at times for spline lube was not much better than hand lotion, so as always, the creative enthusiasts fixe the problem with a proper solution as in this case. The good news is that most BMW bikes, and especially the classic "Flying Brick" K-bikes have very few areas in need of special attention, and even those do not require frequent attention.

Very few dealers are greasing many early Kbike splines nowadays. Later Paralever Kbikes use a two piece driveshaft that is nowhere near as prone to wear. They can get away with a less effective (although I don’t know why anyone would want to) grease. The dealers probably haven’t put that much thought or effort into what they use. The stuff originally recommended by BMW does not work over high mileage for early Kbikes, even when used often. I’ve worked on several K75Ss that were at the dealers for driveshaft spline lubes within the previous 500 mi. and the lube was almost gone.

I’ve been to dealers where the response from the service manager, and the mechanics as to what they use on splines is; “I don’t know. We just use what is in that tub over there” What is in that unlabeled tub? “I don’t know, but that’s what we’ve always used.”

K-bike service notes

Attached is a document I put together covering a number of classic K-bike service items. I learned these things from manuals, personal experience, and from people on this forum who know much more than I do about these bikes.

For the new owner, don't freak out that your new-to-you bike will make you a maintenance slave. Quite the contrary. However, as I note in the introduction, I like to go over a new-to-me bike from end to end to get everything "correct" in the German mechanical sense. Once done, the vast majority of these things only require a periodic check. I'm sure there are many improvements which can be made to this document, and I will be more than happy to incorporate such input if offered. I think photos would really help. I have also attached the official BMW service schedule. Not everything is on there, and some of the things which are don't require the frequency listed. Discussing those things would be a good project for another document.

This information is offered as my personal experience and practice. Use some or none subject to your own judgement.

My method for doing driveshaft splines is a bit different than other’s. (For many reasons)

First: If you are strong enough and have good centerstand technique, put the bike on the centerstand on top of a 2x10 or 2x12.
This will allow you to remove the rear wheel without having to remove and replace the rear fender/license plate holder. You will JUST be able to work the wheel out between the exhaust and the fender if you tip it at the right angle. Removing the wheel completely will make all the following steps way easier (like getting to the final drive bolts). If you can’t quite get your bike on the centerstand with the board under it, try rolling the rear tire onto a SEPARATE 2x.This will put the bike at a higher starting point and make it a bit easier to get it up on the centerstand. Remove rear wheel.


Second: Be aware that there is a boot between the swing arm and the transmission. This boot is between 25 and 35 years old and can be dried out and brittle! You do not want to extend it past it’s normal operating range by much or you run the risk of tearing it. That will triple the amount of work you will have to do (remove peg plates and swingarm) and add $46.39 and a couple weeks to get the boot, so it is worth trying NOT to tear it. Put a jackstand or block under the swingarm that limits it’s downward travel to at most 3/4” below were it is hanging while still connected to the final drive and shock. Do this before proceeding!!!


Third: Remove 2 rear caliper mounting bolts. Make sure these are the bolts between the caliper and the ears on the final drive, NOT the bolts that hold the two halves of the caliper together! Unclip brake hose from swingarm. Lift off caliper and suspend it from the frame with wire tie, coat hanger, or piece of cord. Do not stress brake hose!!!
Follow the speed sensor wire forward and unclip it from the clip on the swingarm. Then disconnect it from the connector just forward of your coolant overflow bottle. Pull about 6” of slack back to the final drive. If you have ABS, do the same for the ABS wire.

Fourth: Remove the four bolts that attach the final drive to the swingarm. LEAVE THE SHOCK ATTACHED! Separate final drive from swingarm and driveshaft by pulling back about 1”. Shock will support final drive. Rotate final drive 90 degrees on shock so that splines are pointing toward you.

Fifth: If YOU were not the last one to lube the splines or if it’s been more than 10,000mi. since the driveshaft has been thoroughly cleaned, remove it. The driveshaft to tranny output has a sort of snap ring on it. It cannot be just pulled of, it must be pried. Do NOT use pliers on the snout of the driveshaft (That can create stress risers on the shaft that could lead to failure).
The easiest way to release the driveshaft(by far) is to take an 1 1/8” (or so) hose clamp and tighten it over the snout of the driveshaft, using the end of the swingarm as the fulcrum (with a piece of sheetmetal, leather or cardboard protecting the end of the swingarm) pry the bump of the hoseclamp towards the back of the bike. A sharp snaping motion works better that slow pressure. It doesn’t take that much effort. 1/2” of movement will release the shaft. Hold final drive out of the way and withdraw driveshaft from swingarm. You might have to rotate the shaft a bit-as the universal reaches the last couple inches of the swingarm.

Sixth: Clean and inspect both sets of splines on the driveshaft and the one on the final drive. If you are wondering what perfect splines look like, look at the splines at the universal end of the driveshaft. That is what the final drive end of the driveshaft started life as. See the nice wide flat tops of each spline? If the splines come to a sharp point, they’re done, toast, junk. There are still a few good used ones available. New driveshafts are available ($400) New final drives are cost prohibitive ($1200).


Seventh: Liberally lube all three splines (both ends of driveshaft and final drive) with TS-60 from TS Moly sold by Ted Porters BeemerShop. Fill all grooves to top of spline. Grease is a lot cheaper than parts. Straighten universal. Put bike in gear. Lift swingarm to level. Insert driveshaft into swingarm, engage splines by rotating shaft, push it in until it stops. Take a large plastic dead blow hammer or a block of wood (against the snout of the driveshaft) and a heavy hammer, and give the snout of the driveshaft a quick rap to snap the snap ring over the transmission output shaft. This should cause driveshaft to go in approximately an additional 1/2”. Try pulling and pushing on shaft to make sure snap ring is engaged.

Eighth: Engage final drive in driveshaft. You may have to rotate brake disc to get splines aligned.

Nineth: Put everything back together (don’t forget the wires) except rear wheel.
Final drive mounting bolts 34 ft/lb.
Brake caliper mounting bolts 21 ft/lb.

Tenth: Clean rear rotor with Braklean. Pump up rear brake with pedal.

Eleventh: Install rear wheel. Torque wheel bolts 75ft/lb.

Go for test ride. Come home and have a beer while you try to figure out why you don’t have any left over parts. Maybe it’s because you only took off 4 wheel bolts, 2 caliper bolts, and 4 final drive bolts.

http://www.largiader.com/removal/

I use this method. Then put a hoseclamp on the exposed driveshaft end and pop it out with a lever
Lube spines and reassemble

Nick
1990 K75RT

xcaret said:

Thanks for all the information , I not only know how to check the slpines now , but which greaes to use ..
One question , shipping anything from US to Canada costs a fortune , ie. I checked the price on a fuel filter , shipping was $34 US for one in tank filter ,which cost less ,
Would the BMW dealers not carry the correct spline grease ? I can call them, but thought I'd ask here first ,and not buy an inferior product possibly , ( no one mentioned that ,so I'm curious why not)

Click to expand...

You are in Alberta, correct? If you don't mind me asking, where are you trying to get parts from?

Tom