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Dealers not servicing older bikes?

I get the reason some shops choose not to work on older bikes. But, I thought ten years was a little on the low side for drawing the line. And, wouldn't changing the tire on my 88 R100 RT, be relatively similar to changing the tire on a newer bike's rim--especially if I've already taken the wheels off the bike? That being said, I realize it's 100% up to the shop owner to decide what they will work on.
 
There are advantages to owning something simple like ... say a Suzuki DR650 for example.
In production and essentially unchanged for 25 years, a person with even limited mechanical ability could probably maintain one nearly forever by themselves, or at least until the engine wore out. Simple is good.

As an engineer, I appreciate design refinement and reliability. A well designed product should not require constant fiddling with to work properly. A good design is also easy to service, but the best engineering designs do not require service at all.
 
Guess it depends on the dealer and your relationship with that dealer. I just had new wheel bearings changed out on my 27 year old 1100 rs at my dealer in St Louis. I had them order the bearings and then dropped the wheel of as a filler job for when they could get to it. My guess, if you plan your service needs around peak time periods you will find most dealers ready to help out. If it's an emergency during traveling and in peak season, you might be in trouble so best to have some skill at self maintenance.
 
Just an idea. . . . .

I had this explained to me from the owner of a HD dealership. He said they keep very busy working on new bikes with owners that trade often. He also said they don't work on older bikes because they can have an older bike come in and it turns into a serious problem and the repairs "total" the bike and they can't recover the shop expense. Plus guys will bring in a bike, they spend a couple hours working on it preparing and estimate, it is "totaled" and the customer never picks it up. So now they have a couple hours of labor, and a junk bike to deal with. More likely to happen on a $5,000 ride that a $20,000 or $30,000 ride.

One answer for all this is simple. When I ran my own repair shop. I had many folks ask me to look at their XYZ bike that they had. No one else would touch it as it was to old. I would simply offer to take it in, provided they brought the bike in and left a $3000.00 deposit. I offered to meticulously keep track of the hours to diagnose the problems and give them a written estimate, in detail. Most folks balked at that because "I only gave $500.00 (or another dollar amount) and they refused to give me the deposit. I then told them "I thought you were serious about getting it fixed". I could put 5, 10 or more hours into the bike and if they said no thanks. I would refund the deposit, minus my labor.
Plan worked fine.
 
There are ways

I was a auto mechanic back in the day when five year old cars dissolved into piles of rust. I never had a problem telling a customer they would be putting more money into a car than it was worth turning them away if they didn't agree.

I don't really think we are talking about the issue of dealerships turning away poorly maintained or abused vehicles here. I would like to think the majority of BMW owners take good care of their bikes and do their best to keep them in top shape.

Sadly, I do know this is not always the case as I see a lot of Previous owner's disease contracted by second or third owners of BMW airhead bikes. They get stuck with the bag when they can't find a shop to fix things the previous owner did or didn't do. I can't blame a shop owner for not wanting to work on some of these bikes the risk of getting stuck with an abandoned bike or a big unpaid bill is real.

Anyway, I know how mad I got when my new to me dealership that replaced my dealership told me to buy a bike from them or don't bother them. On top of the your bike is too old. It turned me off of BMW or at least the new ones. I wouldn't buy a new bike from the new dealer for all the tea in China and I sure wasn't going to travel four hours from home to buy one either.

My airheads have lasted the tests of time and I continue to ride them despite BMW dealership nonsense. I do thank BMW for keeping parts available longer than other companies. If you have a dealership that supports you, support them, they are worth gold. St.
 
Interesting comments...if anyone has not noticed..BMW is a in the finance business now and has been for years...cars and bikes..service departments are there PRIMARILY to support warranty work and secondarily older vehicle work...anything past 4 years old...I use an ex BMW bike mechanic now an indie near Toronto and he is magic...BMW cars I gave up on 3 years ago when thye handed me a quote for a new engine in my 750i XDrive for 22,000 bucks..4 year old car...I sold it immediately and bought my first American set of wheels..a GMC SUV...never going back to BMW ever...I own 2 , now mint, K1200RS's, 1999 and 2001...58,000 and 112,000 KM respectively. I order some service items from the dealer in Toronto but for the clutch rebuilds on both bikes plus discs etc all parts come from US or UK suppliers...most cases the same exactly as BMW for half the price up here even after shipping...I chuckle every time when I walk through the car showroom to the bike showroom when my ex car salesman asks me when I want to test drive the new 7 series...never...in the meantime I am building a stock of RS parts for the day when BMW has no more...stuff like radiators, fans, final drives, slaves, mirrors, breather hoses, throttle bodies, TPS etc...
 
No need for conspiracy theories.

Folks buying new BMW many times don't hesitate paying the dealership going hourly rate for maintenance. BMW pays it when warranty work is done.

With new bikes, the dealer can rely on BMW technical help with difficult issues. I expect not with older models.

Those that buy new bikes PAY for the warranty provided and have no choice but to do so. Prepaid maintenance plans exist ... and that's what a warranty is as regards repairs.

There really aren't that many BMW owners with older bikes that just as easily could afford a new bike and the related maintenance expense. Do any of them buy warranties?

With new bike sales, the dealer has current, accurate information as to the purchaser's credit rating or ability to pay. This relates directly to the $3K deposit suggestion. It's "show me the money." Always.

Bottom line is that it is just more comfortable and seeming less risk to concentrate the service department on new bikes.

Business 101.
 
No need for conspiracy theories.

Folks buying new BMW many times don't hesitate paying the dealership going hourly rate for maintenance. BMW pays it when warranty work is done.

With new bikes, the dealer can rely on BMW technical help with difficult issues. I expect not with older models.

Those that buy new bikes PAY for the warranty provided and have no choice but to do so. Prepaid maintenance plans exist ... and that's what a warranty is as regards repairs.

There really aren't that many BMW owners with older bikes that just as easily could afford a new bike and the related maintenance expense. Do any of them buy warranties?

With new bike sales, the dealer has current, accurate information as to the purchaser's credit rating or ability to pay. This relates directly to the $3K deposit suggestion. It's "show me the money." Always.

Bottom line is that it is just more comfortable and seeming less risk to concentrate the service department on new bikes.

Business 101.

?
On the car side, BMW has some of the highest lease rates in the industry. Those that can and do pay cash for new often keep them until the wheels fall off.

Personally, I don’t think what a person rides or drives is a very good indicator of their overall net worth. In fact, lots of people are upside down in that regard.
 
?
On the car side, BMW has some of the highest lease rates in the industry. Those that can and do pay cash for new often keep them until the wheels fall off.

Personally, I don’t think what a person rides or drives is a very good indicator of their overall net worth. In fact, lots of people are upside down in that regard.

You are correct, in my case what I drive or ride is not an indication of my net worth. My wife and I are of the same mind and we keep rolling stock a very long time. If someone gave me a new BMW automobile I would off load it just as fast as I could and I just about can say the same about a new BMW motorcycle. Simple by choice went out the window and as far as new cars are concerned they are mostly loaded with gadgetry like smart cruise control and computer screens instead of good old gauges and the whole thing just turns me off. I just wish Henry Ford would have built motorcycles back in the day. I guess he gave it some thought. I'd be happy with a '36 Ford Flatty as my daily driver instead of one of these electric rigs with a 1000 pound lithium ion battery that has an 8 year warranty and costs $18K to replace. Wonder what the trade in value of a car like that would be close to the 8 year mark?

These BMW dealers, and they're not alone, consider anything over 7 years old to be ancient and they have no time for you or your bike. Well, my gain their loss:banghead Oh, and if I could figure out how to put Bing carbs on my R1100RSL I'd give it a go.
 
Even though I disagree with the business decision of a dealership to stop servicing bikes that are over ten years old, I can also understand where they are coming from, especially with significantly older bikes.

Picture if you're the service manager of the dealership that takes in an old airhead, or early flying brick, for repair. You start to disassemble the bike far enough to reach the problem.

The mere act of disassembly damages parts, such as wires, gaskets, o-rings, hoses, and more. What might have been flexible when new, are now old and brittle. Perhaps those items would have soldiered on for years if undisturbed, or maybe they themselves were just days or months away from failure. Because they've been disturbed while in the shop, well, now they're broken and need to be replaced. Do you charge the customer? Will the customer accept the explanation?

An o-ring may be one thing, but an entire wiring harness? Ouch.

With each step in disassembly, more and more items need to be repaired or replaced--and you haven't even reached the issue that brought the customer there in the first place.

A late friend of mine had a rat bike, a '77 R100RS. It had almost 400,000 miles on the odometer, and every mile showed on it. I'm sure that the repair shops cringed inwardly each time it went in for work. And yes, he was also perpetually short on funds, so sometimes it would remain in the shop, taking up space, for months or years on end while he scratched up the money to pay for the most recent repair.

My newest bike is fifteen years old. My oldest one is almost 50 years old. The middle one has almost 100,000 miles on the odometer. I can afford to buy a new one. I can afford to have mine repaired. I could theoretically service and repair my bikes, and have done so from time to time, but I'd rather ride than wrench. I have an excellent dealer nearby, that does work on old bikes.

I'm deciding what path to take this year: keep going with my old ones, buy a new one and sell the old ones, or something in between.
 
Even though I disagree with the business decision of a dealership to stop servicing bikes that are over ten years old, I can also understand where they are coming from, especially with significantly older bikes.

Picture if you're the service manager of the dealership that takes in an old airhead, or early flying brick, for repair. You start to disassemble the bike far enough to reach the problem.

The mere act of disassembly damages parts, such as wires, gaskets, o-rings, hoses, and more. What might have been flexible when new, are now old and brittle. Perhaps those items would have soldiered on for years if undisturbed, or maybe they themselves were just days or months away from failure. Because they've been disturbed while in the shop, well, now they're broken and need to be replaced. Do you charge the customer? Will the customer accept the explanation?

An o-ring may be one thing, but an entire wiring harness? Ouch.

With each step in disassembly, more and more items need to be repaired or replaced--and you haven't even reached the issue that brought the customer there in the first place.

A late friend of mine had a rat bike, a '77 R100RS. It had almost 400,000 miles on the odometer, and every mile showed on it. I'm sure that the repair shops cringed inwardly each time it went in for work. And yes, he was also perpetually short on funds, so sometimes it would remain in the shop, taking up space, for months or years on end while he scratched up the money to pay for the most recent repair.

My newest bike is fifteen years old. My oldest one is almost 50 years old. The middle one has almost 100,000 miles on the odometer. I can afford to buy a new one. I can afford to have mine repaired. I could theoretically service and repair my bikes, and have done so from time to time, but I'd rather ride than wrench. I have an excellent dealer nearby, that does work on old bikes.

I'm deciding what path to take this year: keep going with my old ones, buy a new one and sell the old ones, or something in between.

[cross thread ]. Your point makes the no "DVD repair manual availability" even more egregious. so at some point in ownership, the dealer won't touch it and you have no definitive instructions on how to touch it. A PRINTED shop manual for the usual maintenance and deeper projects for a hundred or two really makes sense.
 
Boy, you're all right, it just never ends. I remember my great-great grandfather complaining about his Prairie Schooner, it was just 20 years old and he couldn't find one dealer who'd work on it. All the old time wagon mechanics were retiring and the young bucks weren't trained on older wagons. If ya didn't buy one of those new fangled Conestoga jobs you were pretty much out of luck. Had to learn to work on them yourself, I believe that's how the term "shade tree mechanic" came to be and they literally were.

Sorry got to go, my iPhone 27 just arrived, don't want to miss the training class. ;)
 
Boy, you're all right, it just never ends. I remember my great-great grandfather complaining about his Prairie Schooner, it was just 20 years old and he couldn't find one dealer who'd work on it. All the old time wagon mechanics were retiring and the young bucks weren't trained on older wagons. If ya didn't buy one of those new fangled Conestoga jobs you were pretty much out of luck. Had to learn to work on them yourself, I believe that's how the term "shade tree mechanic" came to be and they literally were.

Sorry got to go, my iPhone 27 just arrived, don't want to miss the training class. ;)

The Conestoga WAS the prairie Schooner...nevertheless point made. (Id compare the dished wheel wooden hub with the Sarvon Hub and bent felloes with the sawn sectioned ones) (LOL- for kind humorous intent indication)

[edit] hmmmm there DO seem to be some experts who distinguish the conestoga and prairie schooner. Learn something new every day- thanks duckduckgo. Nevertheless, if you could fix one you could fix the other]
 
[cross thread ]. Your point makes the no "DVD repair manual availability" even more egregious. so at some point in ownership, the dealer won't touch it and you have no definitive instructions on how to touch it.

Yup. A very clear message that 10-year old bikes could well become unsupportable. Also include the fact that, without authoritative information from the manufacturer, outside publishers like Haynes and Clymer have no reliable source info to be able to produce their manuals.
 
I can understand dealers not wanting to work on older bikes. The dealer network is pretty sparse and demand to work on newer machines is likely all they can manage to keep up with. As noted, the issue comes with the lack of service and repair manuals going forward. In time who will be able to work on bikes too old for the dealer to take on? I can see the value of used BMW's tanking as no one will be able to maintain them. That may then reflect on new bike sales as buyers choose brands with better resale values a few or several years later on. Going in to buy a new bike and getting next to nothing for the trade in will hurt brand loyalty.

I have one newer BMW that is still under warranty. It hasn't seen the inside of the dealers service department since the first service was completed. I have the repair DVD for it and use it to do my own work. My ability to pay dealer service costs is not the issue, it's my willingness to pay them for what I'd prefer to do myself and am fully capable of doing.
 
Yup. A very clear message that 10-year old bikes could well become unsupportable. Also include the fact that, without authoritative information from the manufacturer, outside publishers like Haynes and Clymer have no reliable source info to be able to produce their manuals.

Bear in mind that an independent shop or publisher can pay an annual fee for unrestricted access to the technical information. If I recall it is a few thousand dollars. While that fee is outrageous for the at-home shade tree guy like me, it is chump change to a publisher like Clymer or Haynes. Further, the lack of BMW provided manuals or CD/DVDs makes the market for after market manuals bigger, and would allow at least a marginally higher price per book or DVD.

I don't at all like what BMW is doing but at the same time I am not yet ready to declare doom and gloom.
 
No need for conspiracy theories.

Folks buying new BMW many times don't hesitate paying the dealership going hourly rate for maintenance. BMW pays it when warranty work is done.

With new bikes, the dealer can rely on BMW technical help with difficult issues. I expect not with older models.

Those that buy new bikes PAY for the warranty provided and have no choice but to do so. Prepaid maintenance plans exist ... and that's what a warranty is as regards repairs.

There really aren't that many BMW owners with older bikes that just as easily could afford a new bike and the related maintenance expense. Do any of them buy warranties?

With new bike sales, the dealer has current, accurate information as to the purchaser's credit rating or ability to pay. This relates directly to the $3K deposit suggestion. It's "show me the money." Always.

Bottom line is that it is just more comfortable and seeming less risk to concentrate the service department on new bikes.

Business 101.

I respectfully disagree with your last full sentence.

It should read: "Bottom line is that it is just more comfortable and seemingly less risk to concentration on newer bikes. And the service department will see faster turnover, if you just buy a new bike. BMW will even finance it for you."

Easy
 
I can understand dealers not wanting to work on older bikes. The dealer network is pretty sparse and demand to work on newer machines is likely all they can manage to keep up with. As noted, the issue comes with the lack of service and repair manuals going forward. In time who will be able to work on bikes too old for the dealer to take on? I can see the value of used BMW's tanking as no one will be able to maintain them. That may then reflect on new bike sales as buyers choose brands with better resale values a few or several years later on. Going in to buy a new bike and getting next to nothing for the trade in will hurt brand loyalty.

I have one newer BMW that is still under warranty. It hasn't seen the inside of the dealers service department since the first service was completed. I have the repair DVD for it and use it to do my own work. My ability to pay dealer service costs is not the issue, it's my willingness to pay them for what I'd prefer to do myself and am fully capable of doing.

Like the 1923 through 1969 Harley bikes? Those machines seem to have survived to a satisfactory degree, be it in a museum or at bike week. Perhaps our old BMW bikes will follow the Harley lead and just become more exclusively rare, but accounted for.
 
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