Vibration

I have an R850R that I have ridden over 10k since May. I like the they way it rides, and handles and stops (abs). What I am not happy with is the way it runs. I synched the tb's, and did the zero = zero setup of the tps, and still had a "skip" between 3.5 and 4k when rolling back on the throttle when making turns and coming out of sharp curves. I took it to the dealer to see if they could do better, and now the bike vibrates so bad above 5k that my hands go numb, and the skip is still there. Any suggestions? I am not wanting to spend 300 bucks for an add on device that may not work, I would rather save the money to put down on a
V-strom and tell BMW to kiss my hiney if I cant get this sorted out. The bike has 48k on the odometer, and I really would like to have a good running smooth engine to go with the great features I have on this machine. I am a service tech, with a degree in biomedical electronics, so the adjustments I made were fairly easy to do for me, and I am confident that I did them properly. I am ready to sell the bike and all my bmw tshirts if I cant make it run well.

I'm think'in bout good vibrations....

I bought my 1st BMW in April, it's a 01 R1100 RT. The engine and tranny are much rougher then my Kawasaki Vulcan 800. I had a lot of vibration and "bucking", which I've figured out to be the "surging" that everyone talks about..

I had the TFI 259 installed Wednesday and it's been a world of difference so far. The bike runs much much smoother. I'm even comfortable riding at 65 mph in 5th gear (RPM's in the low 3's). I'm wouldn't be surprised if it also reduced some wear and tear on the drivetrain because the bike doesn't "buck" anymore. The engine seems to be a little more "at ease"

After having the TFI installed, now I feel as if the RT is truly one of the finest touring bikes around as its reputation states...

I'm not sure how close the 850R and the 1100R...."R", but I figured they "R" both R bikes....

It was well worth the investment...so far.....

or you could go sjbmw dual plug. that works pretty good, but it's expensive.


i think you need to come to grips with the fact that it's a bmw oilhead. there is no shortage of character. if you can't get jiggy with it, then I recommend you get something else...probably a japanese 4-cyl.

just a thought.

Character??

Is buying something with a great reputation for reliabilitiy and finding out that it isnt nearly what you imagined called character? I think that flash hit the nail on the head in the what flavor of bike do you have. I have owned american and british bikes, but knew what I was gettng into when I bought them. I was expecting more from my BMW, and I just had to rant a bit about it. I guess part of it was that I had no vibration above 5k till I had the dealer service it with the BMW equipment, so that it was "fine tuned" above and beyond my carb stix and fluke meter. I do love the handling and ride of this bike, just disappointed that the engine is riding on a reputation that will disappear if BMW doesnt get off their asses and do something about it.

You can fix this problem

I suggest that you try and follow this valve adjustment procedure, followed by a good throttle body sync and you will be suprised by how smooth your bike can run. It might take a couple of hours the first time, but you will be rewarded by many hours of fine riding...






http://www.advrider.com/Wisdom/OVADv2.1.pdf

Before you sell your bike, try a Techlusion product. My RT has no significant vibration at any RPM. In fact, my RT vibrates about the same as my K1100LT. Proper fuel mixtures in an oilhead make all the difference. You may notice your bikes smooth when it is warming up. When the motors cold, the bike is still operating in open-loop using a richer mixture. If you checked the CO when cold, you would get a reading of about 3%. When the bike is at normal temperatures, the CO reading can drop as low at .8%. BMW states 1.5% +/- .5% is normal in closed-loop. With a Techlusion 259 TFi, the setting are designed to operate at about 2-2.5% CO.

Your oilhead may be suffering from running overly lean. The R1100 series motors were designed to run open-loop and only us yanks got the closed-loop version until the R1150 series. We like to think are oilhead motors are environmentally friendly. However, even with the catalytic converter our EPA certifications are only average. This is the big reason why BMW went to dual-plugs. New EU regulations that took effect this summer required emission standards oilheads could not meet without dual-plugs. The dual-plugs were a quick fix without expending a significant amount of R&D. Keep in mind the new motor is due out next year. No corporation expends R&D funds on legacy motors unless they have to. However, as a secondary benefit, some folks that have converted their 2-plug bikes to the SJ Heads are reporting decreased or even no surging.

If you are sure you throttle body synchronization is correct, you may want to try Bosch 4418 plugs. One other possibility with 48K on the clock is your bike is carboned up. I just returned from a trip to Glacier National Park in Montana where I rode two up for 8 days at interstate speeds (75-80 out west) running all day at 4000 + RPMs. The bike is smooth as glass after a long trip. You have to keep an oilhead spinning. Slow speeds and low RPMs will carbon your bike up.

So Ken.....
Due to the weather, I've only put a few hundred miles on my bike since adding the TIF 259. It's been running great but I have noticed a drop in gas mileage. Maybe as much as 10%. I'll need more time and distance to get a better gauge. Battleys told me to keep an eye on how the bike is running and they'd do some adjustments if necessary. But I'd swap some gas mileage to achieve this kind of performance.

I noticed you said BMW is coming out with a new engine. Is it going to be an advanced "boxer" design or is this the end of the "R" line of bikes?


Mike

The rumors are both motors are legacy, with the brick at the end of it's line. The next oilhead supposedly due out next spring/summer will be an opposed design introduced on the R11500GS. The next K-bike will be a very high tech inline four design like the Japanese bike. Time will tell.

On your Techlusion R259 TFI, what is your voltage on each pot. I tested the current settings for Chris at Battleys last January, when the east coast was snowed in. Do you know your potentiometer settings? You can turn down your Yellow pot to 1.3v for better mileage, however you loose performance. I noticed a slight drop in gas mileage (2-3 mpg) with my TFi. One of the reasons is I tend to run my bike at higher RPMs and run the bike a bit higher in RPMs before shifting since the bike is running so well. The bike feels sporty, so I tend to ride it that way. More RPMs mean more gas. I did average between 46-50 MPG on the way to and from Montona in July.

Ken,
I have no idea what the settings are. Battley's did the install and set up. It's actually supposed to stop raining for a WHOLE DAY here...yipppppeeeeee.

I'll be able to take the cover off and I'll take a look.

I'm very conservative on my bike and usually ride in the lower rpm range (2.8 to 3.5 range). With the addition of the tech. It runs alot smoother up in the 5's so I've been more inclined to run it up there a little.

I'll let you know what the settings are when I can take the seat off.

I would not recommend adjusting a Techlusion R259 TFi without a digital voltmeter. The R259 TFI has soder squares next to each potentiometer for adjustment. Place your voltmeter on millivolts and attach the ground lead to your negative battery post. Place the positive lead on the square next to the pot. With the bike running, the green pot should read .63v, the yellow and red pot at 1.73v and the cruise or O2 pot at 3.64 volts. This version of TFi too sensitive to adjust without a voltmeter.

Rhine West

Ken,
You sound like an expert, so I propose to pick your brain. I have a CLC and am about to install a Ztech exhaust, I have heard that it will backfire much more but the dealer reccomended the Rhine West chip to cure it. What to you think. I have no surging what so ever and love the bike.
Thanks in advance

John..we are kinda getting off the subject of this post, however here's my advice. Your most likely installing the Z4010 exhaust on your CLC which removes the catalytic converter and 02 sensor. So, you will never have to worry again about surging. Your ECU is mapped to work with an 02 sensor, since none of those models were ever built in open-loop. So it wouldn't surprise me that you will get some backfiring. Since you are dropping over $1000 on an exhaust, I would try it first before replacing the chip. BMWNA has a close relationship with Ztechnik and Ztechnik claims none of their products voids the warranty. I don't believe BMWNA has the same relationship with Rhine West. If it does backfire, you may want to call Ztechnik and ask their advice. They have chips that may correct the problem.

O2 Sensor

Ztech's Z4010 use the O2 sensor.

Went for it

I broke down and ordered the 1031 from techlusion today, and when it gets here I will install and let you know how it goes.

I have a 2004 RT with the twin plug engine and in the two months I have been riding it , I put 4200 miles on it. So far the bike has been as smooth as anything I have ridden. I have been comparing my bike with others and it really is smooooth
There is no surging at all and the engine pulls in all gears equally well. I must say this however; the only time it is rough ,is when the engine is cold.
I do take time to warm it up properly before taking off, usully two bars on the RID. There is no vibration from either engine or transmission. At 55-60 mph I can ride in 6th gear although acceleration is not there, but to maintain that speed is no problem either. For passing however I obviously shift down to 5th or 4th gear.
I think that BMW could have done this improvement long before the emission standards were raised in Europe. It is a pitty that even a company like BMW plays "catch-up" instead of beeing a little more proactive.
I know they have been redesigning their R and K engines but still they could have done a little more to keep all of us happier and not just those who have the newer motors.

Just my 2 cts.

Installation a success

I installed the techlusion box today. I bought the less expensive open loop one, since I wasnt totally convinced that it would cure the problems I have had. Installation took about 10 minutes on my roadster, and after getting it up to temp and making the baseline adjustments, It seems to have cured the surging, and has given me much better throttle response. I am amazed at the difference it has made on the bike. I paid full price for the box, so I have no interest in posting anything but the truth. It was very easy and straightforward to install, and the directions were easy to follow. I may call the company back and see if I can trade in this one and spend the extra 50 bucks to get the closed loop version to keep my catalytic converter in good working order. I put in about 200 miles today and tried to run so that it would surge, and it didnt at all. The smoothness above 5k rpms was noticeable, no more numbness in the hands from spirited riding. Before I recommend it to everyone, I will put more miles on the bike and report back.

I used the Techlusion 1030 box in open-loop for almost 20,000 miles and the lean fuel surging you eliminated is frankly no longer possibly. Why...because the 02 sensor is no longer hunting for the correct fuel mixture. Correctly set...you should not damage the catalytic converter, will have much better throttle response and will never surge again. If you are concerned about the catalytic converter, I would recommend you take the bike to your dealer and adjust the 1030 between 2-3% CO. Carefully record these settings and check during each tune up.

I reluctantly switched to the Techlusion TFi after I was asked to test it for Techlusion and Battleys. See my website: http://www.kansas.net/~krummk/index.html.first The TFi works very well and I cannot feel any surging on my oilhead that surges badly in closed-loop without it. Does is run better with the TFi? After 12,000 miles on the TFi, the bike runs consistently better with it, but has a bit less performance with 3-4 MPG less mileage. The 1030 has better performance. However, the gas mileage was unchanged.

Update

I have seen my milage drop by almost 10 mpg, and black stuff started coming oout of the muffler. I emailed Techlusion and they told me to back off on one of the adjustments. It has improved the milage and I dont see the black stuff like I did. Guess that my hearing is really getting bad now, I couldnt hear the difference they asked for when adjusting the unit. It is hell getting old... First glasses, and now a hearing aid. I am toing to change plugs this weekend also and see if that makes a difference. I have 12k on the Bosch that were in the bike when I bought it, so I have no idea how long they have been in it.

rider1150RT said:

....
I do take time to warm it up properly before taking off, usully two bars on the RID.

Click to expand...

Please, please do not tell people to do that. Both your owners manual and many stories on the net will testify that you MUST not warm up the R bike before riding. The headers will get quite hot, causing melting of plastic parts and the possibility of fire. This is no joke - the BMW is not some antiquated ford pickup - it is designed to start and go immediately. DO NOT SIT AND WARM UP or you will regret it. This is a really big deal. You will certainly void your warranty if you have a problem doing this.

rkleim said:

Please, please do not tell people to do that. Both your owners manual and many stories on the net will testify that you MUST not warm up the R bike before riding. The headers will get quite hot, causing melting of plastic parts and the possibility of fire. This is no joke - the BMW is not some antiquated ford pickup - it is designed to start and go immediately. DO NOT SIT AND WARM UP or you will regret it. This is a really big deal. You will certainly void your warranty if you have a problem doing this.

Click to expand...

What he said. Start it up, let it run for a couple of seconds and then take off. It will get those lowers hot enough to turn them crispy golden brown if it doesn't have cooling air flowing over them.

dave