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Thread: 1997 R850R Start-up Cam Chain Noise w/Upgraded Tensioner

  1. #31
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycleman2 View Post
    Oil threads tend to head to the basement pretty fast.
    That is true because a lot of people have stupid ideas about oil.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  2. #32
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    That is true because a lot of people have stupid ideas about oil.
    https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

    OM
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  3. #33
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Which begs the question....Who is "Bob" ?

  4. #34
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Which begs the question....Who is "Bob" ?
    Well, he is the oil guy, of course. As to why he has any qualifications to call himself the oil guy remains a question.

    I did peruse the "Home Page" of the site and found an interesting article by "MolaKule". Cute but not informative as to qualifications. The article is annotated by a good collection of references.

    The most telling thing is that sprinkled in the article at several spots were Amsoil ads. I thus suspect some motivation for the claim to fame.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  5. #35
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Which begs the question....Who is "Bob" ?
    Maybe he's the cousin of "Bob's your uncle"!?
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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  6. #36
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Maybe he's the cousin of "Bob's your uncle"!?
    Nice.

  7. #37
    Neglected Bike Adopter
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycleman2 View Post
    These generation bikes also had right side throttle plate rattle as they put on the miles. Often got confused with valve noises. Also the clutch can make some funny noises at idle. Try to isolate where the rattle is actually coming from, use a long screwdriver or auto stethoscope to help.

    From my R1100 days, the big difference between the old and new tensioner was that the new one didn't bleed down like the old one did. Oil threads tend to head to the basement pretty fast.
    What kind of "throttle plate rattle" is typical? Which part is it exactly? I ask because I took apart both throttle bodies to thoroughly clean them out a while back. They were nasty inside. Made extra sure that each butterfly was screwed down tight to its shaft, but one of the shafts (I think it was the right side TB) had very slight axial play.

    As for valvetrain noise, I noticed an uptick in that after I did a very needed valve adjustment about 1500 miles ago. "Tappy valves are happy valves" and all that. Sounds like sewing-machine noise all the time while running, and not CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK on startup.

    The clutch doesn't seem to make any noises, as cold starts have the same clacking whether I start with the clutch pulled in or not. I sometimes have to start it up with the clutch in as normal procedure due to the typical slightly-lazy neutral light.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  8. #38
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senseamidmadness View Post
    What kind of "throttle plate rattle" is typical? Which part is it exactly? I ask because I took apart both throttle bodies to thoroughly clean them out a while back. They were nasty inside. Made extra sure that each butterfly was screwed down tight to its shaft, but one of the shafts (I think it was the right side TB) had very slight axial play.

    As for valvetrain noise, I noticed an uptick in that after I did a very needed valve adjustment about 1500 miles ago. "Tappy valves are happy valves" and all that. Sounds like sewing-machine noise all the time while running, and not CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK-CLACK on startup.

    The clutch doesn't seem to make any noises, as cold starts have the same clacking whether I start with the clutch pulled in or not. I sometimes have to start it up with the clutch in as normal procedure due to the typical slightly-lazy neutral light.
    The part that wears is the throttle plate shaft. The bores that this shaft goes through also sometimes wear but the real wear is the shaft itself. Then at idle the induction pulses cause the shaft to vibrate in the bores and it ticks.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  9. #39
    Neglected Bike Adopter
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    Ah, I have heard of that before and saw a picture or two a few months back. I did make sure to check that when I cleaned them, and didn't notice any abnormal amount of wear. The shaft looked perfectly round in both the spots it fits tightly into the throttle body.

    Is it possible I got a faulty tensioner piston? The MOA member who sold it to me through the Marketplace said it had been sitting in the package for years; perhaps the ball valve is leaky?

    Edit: I should mention my original tensioner with the 17mm head seemed to work just fine, and I did not notice any start-up clacking until *after* I made the change to the new tensioner.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by senseamidmadness View Post
    Once I hit my next service in about 500 miles I'll be swapping to 20w-50. You think that'll have an impact on cam chain noise? And should I drain the tensioner again when I swap to the heavier oil?
    Max is selling 15/ 50 Weight Advantic pro for use in our motors.
    https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/NotesP...365963_1_B.jpg
    Only $16.50 / qt. + shipping.
    Must be really special oil. Maybe extra virgin.?

  11. #41
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    So a couple days ago I emailed Tom Cutter asking whether he's ever had any of these new tensioners fail, and got a very quick reply. He theorized that my tensioner piston, in sitting on the shelf for over 2 years, might have accumulated some rust on the check valve or in the piston body.

    He also said that I should address the cam chain issue ASAP, so I did, in the easiest/cheapest/quickest way I had on hand: replacing it with the original tensioner.

    My original tensioner was quite rusty around the top, so I decided to try out a couple new things. I used the fancy new brass wire brush my dad got for his bench grinder to take off all the rust, and then did a very basic hot bluing process to hopefully rustproof it for the near future. Heated it up with a propane torch until the head all glowed cherry red and then quenched in slightly-used motor oil. To the naked eye it doesn't look as bad as the picture.

    IMG_20211225_0043151.jpgIMG_20211225_0043207.jpg

    Reinstalling the original tensioner did not completely eliminate the clattering noise on start-up, but it is now much quieter and lasts for a shorter time so it's an improvement. Previously I could hear it through my helmet and earplugs when starting up the bike from completely cold and now I can't.

    I'll be reinstalling another upgraded tensioner as soon as I'm able to, or fixing the one I have.

    I took a video of the noise with the original tensioner reinstalled if anybody wants to hear it. It certainly sounds to me like it's the left side of the engine but I'm inexperienced. https://youtu.be/GSIg34PV4ds


    When I got the upgraded tensioner piston out, it was full of oil and impossible to push down as it had been before. Poking the ball valve allowed it to be pushed together and drained of oil as you'd expect. I'm honestly not sure what's wrong with it. Maybe it's slowly losing pressure over a few days? It does feel a bit "scratchy" when pushing it up and down without oil in it.

    I have an idea or two as to how I could possibly fix the new tensioner piston, assuming it's rusted in some way; the easiest being to just soak it in brake parts cleaner to get it dry and then dunk it in Evapo-Rust for a few days. I'd rather try to repair it than drop $80+ on the replacement part, if I can.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  12. #42
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senseamidmadness View Post


    When I got the upgraded tensioner piston out, it was full of oil and impossible to push down as it had been before. Poking the ball valve allowed it to be pushed together and drained of oil as you'd expect. I'm honestly not sure what's wrong with it. Maybe it's slowly losing pressure over a few days? It does feel a bit "scratchy" when pushing it up and down without oil in it.
    It is operating correctly.
    Fill it and clamp the assembly lightly. Watch and see if it leaks down and how long.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    It is operating correctly.
    Fill it and clamp the assembly lightly. Watch and see if it leaks down and how long.
    I'll do exactly that and report back; my dad just picked up a pair of soft jaws for his vise so it'll be the first thing they get used on.
    Owner of the saddest 1997 R850R you ever did see.

  14. #44
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Also make sure that the tiny little bleed holes are not clogged, and don't use sealant on the crush washer - it's close enough to one of those holes that any excess may obstruct it.

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