Lengthy Moto E-Mag on BMW Motorrad Philosophy

The editor is stuck in the K-bike era ... an era that's over save for the K1600. Its S1000 and M1000 now. Says he doesn't like Boxers which means he's basically out of touch with BMW.

I think he's correct regarding R18 and hope he's correct it will fail. It's an embarasment to BMW and an insult to its traditional customers and you think they would have learned from the R1200C. Same feelings regarding K1600 Bagger.

If BMW doesn’t sell new bikes and bring new ideas forward to interest new customers, they won’t have the resources to warehouse parts for the old bikes.
Hoping BMW will fail in this new endeavor?
OM

I would personally never be interested in owning or riding an R18, but I hope BMW sells every one they can build. Profits from those sales help subsidize the bikes some of us DO like to ride, along with the dealers we depend upon for sales, parts, service, and accessories.

Best,
DeVern

I don't mind

I don't mind BMW bringing new ideas and concepts to the market. I am NOT enamored with big complex expensive motorcycles requiring expensive maintenance costs to keep them running. I am also not enamored with small or midsize complex expensive bikes requiring a lot of money to repair and maintain either. Add the fact of cost to the real lack of dealers and I wonder how they sell any motorcycles at all?

I appreciate BMW still supplying parts for my bikes, they do a better job than some companies. When they choose to NLA everything, I guess I will start fishing instead of riding.

BMW may one day come up with the perfect bike to turn me over to buy something newer than my 84 RT but sadly, I won't ride 4 hours to a dealer to try or buy it.

You can have all the high tech, stylish, whatever, my 84 R80RT is the best motorcycle I have owned. The dealer I bought it from new was one of the best I have ever dealt with. Nothing BMW has now and has on the drawing board will do much to change my view.

Have fun riding what ever you choose, I do. St.

Not even an R18 would make me ride cruisers.

Part of the article tells me why my 2004 RT is gorgeous and nearly every BMW designed afterwards makes me cringe.

BMW nearly went broke designing, manufacturing, and trying to sell practical, easy to maintain, and long lasting products. Then marketing stepped in and with the power of “hype” built the company into what it is today. Buy low, sell high…

The concept of “Caveat emptor” still applies.

Has Motorrad said anything publicly about how many R18's they've actually made and sold?

I can't imagine they'd be releasing the new models with all the fairings this year if the original model was a complete sales flop.

Or maybe they intentionally haven't made a ton of them, maybe just a thousand or two every year, and expect to sell them all? I seem to recall they took this approach with the R1200C. I was able to find on Wikipedia that they only produced 350 R1200C Montauk models for the final year of production.

ponch1 said:

The R18 is still better on paper than HDs, but I doubt it will convert anyone.

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On paper? Maybe. In the flesh? I rode it. It's not.

motormike said:

On paper? Maybe. In the flesh? I rode it. It's not.

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Which R18? The only one I might be interested in is the R18B. The non-touring ones have less suspension travel, torture seats and no storage or wind protection. The HDs have better fit and finish, but the whole process of buying one leaves me cold. Where I live there's a lot of additional dealer profit that gets thrown in and the process will be drawn out to where one down. Of course this could be any dealer I suppose, I've heard some crazy stories about local HD dealers. I just don't believe. I was in HD of Scottsdale and you should have seen the reaction when I discussed buying my RT and it took no more than an hour at the dealer. I told them if I get a whiff that you've watched Steve Richards and/or Andy Elliot, I'm out.

An old thread, but brought back to the top because it looks like after 7 years, Moto E-Mag is hanging it up. Kinda bummed to see it go - hopefully they keep up the back issues for a while.

https://r.ezine.moto-emag.com/3ioko4n8y9xpfe.html?t=1678464698

I was sorry to read that in the last issue. I agreed with most of his thoughts except for this one:

“BTW, I hate the boxer engine with a capital H. That’s why I was the key global influencer for K bikes for, ohhhh, 15 years. Airplane engines have no place on motorcycles.”

It will be interesting to see if the future of the industry plays out along his projections or not.

drneo66 said:

An old thread, but brought back to the top because it looks like after 7 years, Moto E-Mag is hanging it up. Kinda bummed to see it go - hopefully they keep up the back issues for a while.

https://r.ezine.moto-emag.com/3ioko4n8y9xpfe.html?t=1678464698

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Yeah, his site always had good graphics and interesting speculation on the business, but it was pretty light on actual content and I’m guessing it probably never generated the expected ad revenue. Still, it’s sad to lose another enthusiast site.

I agree the writing is on the wall for the future of “premium” motorcycles, though. The demand for $30k+ bikes will likely continue to slump as the economy cools and those with discretionary cash age out. Smaller and more affordable “fun” bikes are in again. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Remember all the fun we had with lesser bikes before we became “serious” motorcyclists ourselves …

mikegalbicka said:

I was sorry to read that in the last issue. I agreed with most of his thoughts except for this one:

“BTW, I hate the boxer engine with a capital H. That’s why I was the key global influencer for K bikes for, ohhhh, 15 years. Airplane engines have no place on motorcycles.”

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Shows how much he knows! Plenty of inline fours and sixes have been used in airplanes, to say nothing of pretty much every shape of engine ever invented.

To see

How about a radial engine BMW bike? LOL, BMW did build a very good radial engine at one time. St.

ponch1 said:

Which R18? The only one I might be interested in is the R18B. The non-touring ones have less suspension travel, torture seats and no storage or wind protection. The HDs have better fit and finish, but the whole process of buying one leaves me cold. Where I live there's a lot of additional dealer profit that gets thrown in and the process will be drawn out to where one down. Of course this could be any dealer I suppose, I've heard some crazy stories about local HD dealers. I just don't believe. I was in HD of Scottsdale and you should have seen the reaction when I discussed buying my RT and it took no more than an hour at the dealer. I told them if I get a whiff that you've watched Steve Richards and/or Andy Elliot, I'm out.

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Same here, from people I know personally who ride them and have to take their bikes to them for service. Overpriced models, no different than BMW really.

I walked into Superstition Harley a month ago on a Sunday as I was in the area. Lots of motors on the floor for sale, plenty of salespeople on the floor, parts counter was busy and there had to be 50 people in that showroom or walking around the over hundred bikes outside for sale.

Here's my take on it. Harley and BMW motors aren't too far apart in their motors that cost an arm and a leg. New RT loaded is close to 30K, new Harley models match that figure or more. 75-80K is about the max miles on a Harley motor before major work is needed. Not much different from BMW's offerings.

Comes down to what you want to ride for me. I rode pan heads, duo glides, electra glides for quite a few years in the 70's and 80's. Today, I wouldn't entertain owning a Harley after owning several including an AMF fxe, Honda's, Yammies, Kawi's and one lonely K100rs mixed into the bunch.

That K100rs had 163K on her when a lady took me and the bike out of action, bike totaled. That was 1994 or so. But it left enough of an impression that I now ride two beemers instead of any of the other makers offerings. I know the cost of ownership in their products if you use a dealer for service, about the same costs for a Harley to be worked on.

I don't ride em because they're beemers, I ride them because they satisfy an itch that started in 94 with that K100rs.

After reading a bunch of back issues, the author of this e-zine is Shahram Shiva, he wrote for the BMW Owners News for a while, and was a big buddy of Laurence Kuykendahl (BMW Motorrad's market communications guy about 20 years ago).

Visian said:

After reading a bunch of back issues, the author of this e-zine is Shahram Shiva, he wrote for the BMW Owners News for a while, and was a big buddy of Laurence Kuykendahl (BMW Motorrad's market communications guy about 20 years ago).

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Thanks. Inquiring minds always wanted to know.

I've really enjoyed Moto eMag and am also sorry to have read he's hanging it up. He claims he has said all he has to say about the motorcycle market. Maybe that's true (he's pretty opinionated) or maybe he just couldn't generate the ad volume or voluntary subscriptions (he's pretty opinionated). I think his "takes" on the industry over the years have been really entertaining and, as far as I could tell, pretty knowledgeable.

As for BMW's shot at the cruiser market, I would have liked to see an R18 but scaled down a bit and with maybe a 1250 boxer motor. It just looks obese to me in a way a HD doesn't-- despite being a hog. ;-) Have you noticed the R18's electronically selectable "shakey idle mode"? How can you take anything seriously that is that fake? Next an e-bike with "rumble mode"?

Personally, I can't fit a new Beemer into my budget. I bought my first BMW in 1968 and still own two. I've never bought one new. I try to avoid dealers if at all possible. I've never felt they cared about me as a rider; only as a mark to be squeezed for my hard-earned cash.
JohnD

Paying money, or reading, anonymous subscriptions isn't the best way to receive accurate information.

E.