1997 R850R Front Suspension Questions

Hey folks,

Now that I've got my sad R850R running and riding mostly reliably, I've noticed something odd about the front suspension arrangement and want to know if it's normal or not.

I find that when I'm riding, the front suspension does not compress much if at all for small bumps. It feels like it's instead hopping over every slight rise in the road surface and takes a fairly significant amount of force for me to see the fork sliders move upwards. As you can imagine this is a bit uncomfortable when the roads aren't perfect. It's hard to quantify exactly how much force it takes to visibly engage the suspension, but the way it rides reminds me of my old Suzuki GS500E when I overfilled the forks with too much oil.

Is it normal for it to feel this firm?

Big bumps don't seem to knock the front off line in turns, and there are no clunking or clicking noises from the front end that I can hear. When I pull the bike off the center stand the front sags down from its fully extended position as you'd expect. A couple of times I've intentionally stood up on the pegs while riding and shoved down with all my body weight, which seems to compress both front and rear suspension equally, but the rear suspension is a lot better at sucking up the smaller bumps than the front is. I weigh about 175 pounds and am not an aggressive rider, and the rear suspension seems fine when set to preload 4 riding by myself with saddlebags. Neither of the shocks are leaking or anything like that.

I have done some work to the front end on this bike but it is all stock/OEM parts. My front tire, an Avon Storm 3D X-M in the stock size, is inflated to 36 PSI as Avon recommended to me in a support email.

When I purchased the bike, there was a leaking fork seal, the original front shock was stuck extended about 1cm beyond its normal travel range, and the ball joint boot was covered in grease. There's a visible paint chip spot on the front lip of my fuel tank where the top of the shock shaft was tapping the fuel tank, and the top securing nut for the shock was sticking up from the frame by about 1cm!

I replaced the fork seals and wipers with new All Balls ones and filled the forks with 470mL per leg of ATF (which is a suitable 10 weight oil) as the manual says, and bled them of excess air using the bleed screws that came on my model. The fork tubes are now perfectly dry on the outsides. I also replaced the extended front shock with a lower-mileage used one, same part number, that wasn't stretched. When I had the shock off, the Telelever A-arm (with the ball joint attached, I haven't removed or adjusted it) seemed to move freely and smoothly with no binding or noise.

The replacement OEM shock seemed to make a slight improvement, but the front end still feels more stiff than I think is comfortable and the shock is completely non-adjustable. The rougher roads here in TN beat my hands up more than I'd like and I'm mildly perturbed by hopping up and over all the minor bumps all the time.

Should I be more concerned that the ball joint was greasy on the outside? Is this perhaps an issue that requires a shock upgrade?

Sounds like you've got a bad shock. The forks just slide and as long as you've got lubrication in there and they are not binding, it should not effect the damping. I could be wrong.I've got a 2000RT and I live on a bumpy road and I get no hops, except in my beer.

eastbay said:

Sounds like you've got a bad shock. The forks just slide and as long as you've got lubrication in there and they are not binding, it should not effect the damping. I could be wrong.I've got a 2000RT and I live on a bumpy road and I get no hops, except in my beer.

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True with one caveat. If there is too much oil in the forks they act like air shocks and can make compression harsh.

Makes sense. Is the manual correct about 470mL of oil in each fork leg? I was quite careful about filling the forks with that amount but it sounds a little high from what I know of forks.

If it's just a bad shock that stinks, since decent shocks are so dang expensive. It'd be the single most expensive part on the bike so far if I had to buy a new one.

Who replaced the fork seals?

When I do my fork seals, I don’t torque all of the fork bridge fasteners completely, just tight enough to hold in place. Then, I compress the fork a few times, in order to “ seat” the forks. This will bring them into alignment, and prevent binding, and also lengthen fork seal life.

walshj1024 said:

Who replaced the fork seals?

When I do my fork seals, I don’t torque all of the fork bridge fasteners completely, just tight enough to hold in place. Then, I compress the fork a few times, in order to “ seat” the forks. This will bring them into alignment, and prevent binding, and also lengthen fork seal life.

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That would be me, and I followed the procedure in my Clymer manual. I vaguely remember it telling me to do exactly that -- leave the fork bridge fasteners slightly loose, install the axle and torque it, push the forks up and down a few times, then torque the bridge fasteners.

I haven't noticed any abnormal drag on the seals; when I had the shock off, the forks moved up and down about as smoothly as I expected them to.

I don’t know the history of your R850, but perhaps at some point, an owner installed a stiffer spring?

walshj1024 said:

I don’t know the history of your R850, but perhaps at some point, an owner installed a stiffer spring?

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The spring is integrated into the shock on these models -- the front suspension has no other springs. I've already replaced the front shock once with a lower-mileage used stock one. Perhaps the stock spring is oversprung for my weight and the bike's weight?

senseamidmadness said:

The spring is integrated into the shock on these models -- the front suspension has no other springs. I've already replaced the front shock once with a lower-mileage used stock one. Perhaps the stock spring is oversprung for my weight and the bike's weight?

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This situation is destroying your enjoyment of this bike. I recommend you do yourself a favor and send the shock off to Ted Porter at the Beemer Shop in California. Give Ted all your data: weight, use, luggage, etc. Have him rebuild the hydraulics and check the spring or re-spring the shock.

Then, drain the oil and refill with the specified amount recommended for the forks.

When back together you will love the bike.

p.s. cheap never wins when trouble abounds!!

That's a great suggestion, but if I'm going to send Ted the money that he and his experience deserve it'll be for new shocks. The front Showa units that came stock on the R and RS models seem like the cheapest shocks of the whole range. They are totally non-adjustable in any way, with springs that don't even go down the whole shock (so the travel is very short) and spring mounts that are cheaply welded in place! For the money it would cost me to get it rebuilt, I could get a brand-new YSS from Ted with both preload and rebound adjustments.

I'm no suspension expert but the front doesn't seem like it's worth rebuilding. The rear is at least preload and rebound adjustable, so if mine really becomes bad at some point I'll consider getting it rebuilt.

I do have another option at the moment that's pretty amazing -- another MOA member reached out to me via PM and offered to send me both of his stock shocks, with half the mileage of mine, completely free. I'm expecting them in the mail next week. Not entirely sure if this user wishes to remain anonymous or not but for the moment I'll keep it that way, and can't thank him enough.

Third stock shock's the charm, I hope.

Now that I have two known-bad stock front shocks, what should I do with them, I wonder?

Paul is correct

Paul is right: the poor suspension is ruining the riding for you.

I rode a '97 R1100RS for eleven years. About half-way in, say ~50,000 miles, I became dissatisfied with the suspension and had Ted Porter re-do it with new Öhlins units front and rear. He addressed the same factors: rider weight, usual load and riding style. Remember the first time you rode in a Mercedes-Benz sedan as a child, and how the car floated over roadway imperfections without any loss of control? Just like that: it was magic.

If you want to fiddle around with the bike and see if you can get it right by trying this and that, do go right ahead. But I'm not an expert. I chose to pay up front and get it right. Every time afterwards I swung a leg over that bike, I grinned.

Non RE-buildable

I recall the stock shocks cannot be rebuilt. Ohlins aren't available for these older BMW's anymore. Maybe Wilber might still be available probably a good choice anyways. However it sounds as if the fork oil volume could be your problem.
Springs rarely extend the length of the shock. Stock shocks are usually factory set up for and average weight person, perhaps on the lighter side if anything.

jrogers said:

I recall the stock shocks cannot be rebuilt.

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Yes, they can. I, and others, have had them rebuilt/revalved.

Does anyone know if the fork oil spec listed in the manual of 470 mL per leg is too high? Because that's what I put in, and I know I got it right because I used a measuring cup and my 1 quart bottle of ATF had just a bit left when I was done.

I checked my factory manual, it says .470 litre, so you are correct.

Where did you get them rebuilt. Ted told me they couldn't.

jrogers said:

Where did you get them rebuilt. Ted told me they couldn't.

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Accelerated Technologies. John Sharrard, owner. Ontario, Canada.

Good to now about this option. Never heard of them before, but I'm not in Canada. To late for me now.
I had the Beemer Shop, Fast-Bike Ind. and Race Tech all tell me the OEM Showa shocks on my BMW's (3-R1150R's, 3-R1100S's) were sealed units and couldn't be rebuilt. Actually Race Tech did say the rear shock on the R1100S BCR could be rebuilt but the cost would be high and not the best produced they had available for the bike. I ended up with Ohlins on all the bike except 1 which got Trac-Tive.

An update: the stiff front suspension problem is, for the moment, solved.

Today I swapped both shocks out for the used-but-better-condition pair that an anonymous MOA member so generously sent me for completely free. They have 17k miles on them and are from an R1100RS. The length and spring rates looked identical to what was already on my machine despite the model difference. I set the rear to preload setting 3 and put the damping adjustment screw right in the middle.

The improvement was apparent after just a few miles. The front end feels a whole lot better and isn't bouncing any more. Feels a lot more stuck to the road. It's been raining for days so I didn't want to get aggressive in the corners and really try them out. I eventually will when the weather improves now that I'm not worried about the front wheel hopping up off the road.

It's not quite floating like a luxury car, but it still eats up all but the biggest bumps just fine. Eventually I might buy a set of YSS shocks to replace them; hopefully I'll have saved up the money by the time these stock ones wear out.

Only mildly related, but I'm quite pleased with how my tires performed in the pouring rain. Today was the first time I'd had the opportunity to test them out in serious rain, and I'd happily recommend a set of Avon Spirit ST's to anybody who rides both wet and dry and has an 18-inch rear wheel.

Good to know. I found a used set of Wilburs and sent them to Ted/Jeff and had them rebuilt for me. Probably the best money I've spent on the bike. My R850R only had 25000 miles on it when I got it, but the suspension was just awful...