1974 R60/6... feeling lost.

Hello! I've had my r60/6 for about a year now, it was running at first but I wanted to get it tip-top shape. Had the carbs cleaned by bing, the tank recoated, new breather valve, new ignition cylinders, new relay, new tires, new throttle cables seems like the list keeps going on and on. I adjusted the timing, points, and valves. Had trouble getting it started so I took it to Undealership in Redwood City. Sean was a cool guy and told me my carbs were really weird but he got it running and I rode it for about.... a week.

Issues starting happening in 5th at about 4000 RPMs. A ticking came from the left side, the bike got louder and I started to lose power. I pulled over engine still running but pretty rough. I turned the engine off and after a while it went back to normal. On my ride back home I had the same issues but only in 5th at high RPMs. The next day the engine would start but I couldn't keep it running. I popped open my valve cover and my rocker adjustment nut had completely fallen off. So I thought ok so I don't have proper compression. I did another valve adjustment and now it won't start... I get a loud kickback after trying for some time. I'm going crazy.... to say the least.

Any thoughts? Carbs? What am I missing?

Welcome to the forum! How comfortable are you with setting the valve clearances? Sometimes the newbies at that can make a mistake. You must set the clearances at top dead center on the compression stroke for each cylinder. Once you set the clearances to one side you must rotate the engine 360 degrees to get to TDC on the compression stroke for the other side. Failing to do that will result in improper clearances. As for clearances, I use 0.15mm for intake and 0.20mm for exhaust.

I'd make sure of the valve clearances before proceeding to next steps. One of those steps would be to confirm the timing. And can you further describe what the "ignition cylinder" is? Haven't heard that before.

Don't panic

Welcome to the club and forum, now take a deep breath and don't panic, your problem may not be so bad.

For all guys having problems after they have worked or repaired something, I always say, "go back and check your work". Kurt hits one nail squarely on the head regarding airhead tune ups, proper valve adjustment is vital. Find TDC in the window and the valves on the compression side of the engine are the ones to adjust, they will be slightly loose. Rotate the engine 180 degrees until TDC comes into the widow again, then do the other side. Oh TDC is OT. It is a bit tricky tightening the adjuster bolts it takes two wrenches to do the job. One wrench has to hold the adjuster from turning while the other tightens the lock nut. The fiddly bit is that the adjuster wants to turn and so valve clearance can change while tightening is happening. Persistence and patience will win the day. Recheck the clearance after the lock nut is tight to be sure it is proper. Don't go crazy tight on the locknuts, take a look online or in a manual for the torque settings I think they are only 10ft/lbs, not a lot.

Valves are adjusted first on any tune up as they change the most during time and miles. Second is points and timing. Again, I must say, I hate points and on any bike I own with them, I have eliminated them with a replacement system. There are a number of systems out there which work fine. Anyway, you have to adjust points and then ignition timing. Again, it is a fiddly thing to get one right then the other because one changes with the other. Adjust point gap and timing changes and so forth. Once the points are set, and timing is set, you can do the carbs.

So your carbs have been rebuilt and adjusted, I really don't think your current problem has anything to do with them so concentrate on the valves and points/timing. I could be wrong but I bet that is what is keeping the bike from running. Recheck the wiring to the points, it is possible to clamp the wire in the front cover and cut or nick it shorting it out.

Okay, I have written a book, sorry, I get wordy, Check online with Boxer two valve, Brook Reams, Anton Largidare, and perhaps other sites. I bet you will find a good video with step by step instructions for setting valves and points/timing. B2V and Brook's videos are top notch and put any repair manual to shame. Good luck. St.

ST -

Just to be clear, you rotate the engine 360 degrees after setting the clearances on the first side. I also have slight "trouble" with the phrase "they will be slightly loose" when referring to the valves on the compression stroke. They could be loose but if the clearances have closed up or they were set wrong the first time, you can't go by that as an indicator. Best to watch the valve action as you rotate the engine...I put the bike in 5th gear and bump the rear tire...when you see the intake valve being opened and then start to move back to closed, go sit in front of the timing window on the left side and slowly bump the rear wheel until the TDC mark appears in the window.

opps

My mistake, not thinking while writing. I meant 360. By loose, the push rods can turn a bit, not tight like the wrong side. St.

STEVENRANKIN said:

By loose, the push rods can turn a bit, not tight like the wrong side. St.

Click to expand...

But one can never really go by that IMO. Again, if the gap has closed up on its own and you didn't know it, you would find the push rods tight and think you're on the wrong side. Best to physically watch the valves or remove the plug and put your thumb over it and wait until you feel pressure on your thumb...you would then be on the compression stroke approaching TDC.

One three minute youtube video is worth a thousand words ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHK0ywdyDU

Airhead engines are about as complicated as a lawn mower.
Good luck with the valve set. Next time will be much easier.

Good visual video. First time I've seen someone take a hammer to the valve train! Also I noted that they said to torque the head bolts to 39 Nm which converts to 28.8 ft-lbs. To my mind, that is too high and risks pulling the studs out of the engine case. A better value is 34 Nm or 25 ft-lbs.

It might have been helpful to have stated at the end that to get to the adjustment point for the right side is to turn the engine using the rear wheel the required 360 degrees...at least that is a bit of a short cut. Otherwise, you have to walk over to the other side, turn the rear wheel watching the intake valve and when it begins to move out, walk back to the left side of the bike and monitor the flywheel marks until OT is in the window. In the end, the same results, though.

Regardless

Regardless of the videos and such, they do exist, it is best to follow one produced by a known company or person. They help a lot in figuring out things.

I guess the most important thing I try to stress in doing when there is a problem is first re check your work. As far as tune ups and rough running airheads the valves should be set "properly" first, points/timing second, finally carbs. This was drilled into my head by my first dealer/mechanic as well as a succession of dedicated airhead mechanics. Believe me, I did things in the early days out of order and spent a lot of time chasing my tail trying to get my R75/7 running smooth. It was this bike that convinced me to eliminate points, something I have never regretted.

Let's not loose sight in this case, the owner of the bike has had a failure of the valve system, probably due to not tightening the nuts properly, that will cause a problem in running it is also an easy fix. Second, the owner says he installed a new ignition? If this is points then there is a good chance they are out of adjustment. Something is out of adjustment for the bike not to run.

Carbs, well, yes, both carbs could conk out 100% and not let the bike run but, it is unlikely, even really screwed up carbs most of the time and I say most of the time will let the bike start and run though not well.

So while I made minor mistakes in what I wrote, I still stand by the advice to recheck the work done, set the valves first, set the points/timing checking the wire to the points, don't mess with the carbs unless the first two thing are done and done properly.

It can be discouraging to buy a used airhead, spend a lot of time and money to fix it up to run only to have things go wrong but, in the end, if a person is willing to learn how to make repairs and adjustments, on them, or can find a good airhead mechanic, they are well worth the initial pain. I don't call my RS the soiled Dove for any reason. I bought a pretty good looking RS and found a lot of the good looks was skin deep. After a lot of work, it is now a reformed girl and running like a top. St.

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it! I was finally able to get to it today.

First, I meant Ignition Coils, not ignition cylinders, my mistake.

Second, after watching the video and reading everyone's replies, I've adjusted my valves on both sides. Intake at .1mm and exhaust at .2mm, I re-checked my work several times. I did run into another issue, my intake adjustment nut has stripped... sooo.. I'm not sure if the adjuster shaft is damaged. My plan is to take a nut splitter to the nut and go from there. My question is if the adjuster shaft is damaged it is easily replaced?

Third, I'm going to start the points and timing adjustment now. I'd love to learn more about the Electronic Ignition options and get rid of the points. Does anyone have a points system you would suggeust?

Finally, I'm feeling pretty good about the project now that I'm using this forum as a resource it's starting to make more sense. If I can get this bike running in a good shape I'll take it back to Sean at Undealership in Redwood City (I'm in Santa Cruz, CA) to have it really go through it.

Update:
After adjust valves, points, and timing it still will not start. I’m going to take some time today to learn more about the carbs.

Fire, Fuel, O2

I first question your .2 mm distance and such for the valves; but will let those distances ride for now. When trouble shooting if a motor will start I check the obvious. Does it have fire? Is it getting fuel? and last is it breathing (seldom the problem).

Checking fire in an engine is as simple as pulling a plug............NOT IN ONE OF THE NEW FANGLED ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS......THIS FELLA HAS A POINTS AND PLUGS SYSTEM...........Ok...Pull a plug, insert it back into the plug holder, lay the plug threads against one of the engine fins, turn the engine over......
Did you get a spark???

Simple to do.........Next will be the fuel......not so simple......

Have the plugs been replaced? Sometimes plugs will fire out in the open but they won't fire under compression.

Have you measured the resistance from spark plug cap to spark plug cap. Should be around 20-22K ohms. That works out to be 5K each for the spark plug caps and 5K each for the coils.

Sorry you're having some issues. I'm relatively close, but still a bit way that I can't just pop by. While I can't offer any additional advice, since you've gotten really good advice here so far. If you plan on working on the bike yourself, I recommend also joining the Airheads Beemer Club (ABC). https://www.airheads.org/ There are benefits of being members of both groups. When I first got my RT, I had some issues and the local individuals were very helpful. ABC has get togethers for fun, tech days where you can do maintenance and get some advice from others, etc.

Fuel

Okay, I am the first person to say mess with the carbs after you have checked the points/timing ignition system and valves. I bite my lip because I just had a strange thing happen to me. I spent the winter restoring my 84 RT and on first try it started running on one cylinder. Rechecking my work, I found a minor problem, I forgot to hook up the lead from one coil to the spark plug. So, once I had slapped myself on the forehead, the bike started and ran fine. I put on my riding gear, and the bike was running fine. As I backed out of the garage, it started to act like it was running out of gas and quit. Now I had gas in the tank and the petcocks were on but it would not start again. Inspection of the float bowls showed no gas to either carb. I pulled the gas line off the petcock opened it and had gas flow out of both of them but no gas to the carbs! I ended up replacing the fuel lines and now everything is fine, the old lines were open, not plugged, so in all my years of BMW, I have never heard of gas not flowing though open lines. I never messed with the carbs, or anything just replaced the gas lines. Vapor lock? Who knows, I don't.

Now back to your bike, do you have gas in the float bowls? If you do, I still think your problem is either ignition or valves. You have the valve clearance right. So, I would look at the ignition system. Remember, look at the wire to the points, make sure it was not clamped in the cover, I have done this myself in the past. Do you have good bright spark? You can safely remove a plug ground it and check as you have points and not the electronic system. If you have spark, perhaps timing is retarded too much? Kurt knows a way to static time bikes with points, perhaps he will write in a link to how to do it?

Also, at cold start, you will need to have the choke on.

As you just had the carbs looked at and the bike ran fine for a week, I am really not thinking of carb problems. Sorry, I am too far to stop by, perhaps someone in the anonymous book listing tools and work space nearby might be able to help?

Good luck, don't panic, St.

Ok, I have spark. Cap to Cap i'm at 22.6 ohms.. is that ok?

checked my float bowls, fuel is flowing. I had a small amount of sediment at the bottom.

When I had them worked on Sean had let me know that there was sand in there. He was confused.. I was confused. I surf and live at the beach sooo not super confused.

I'm going to pull the carbs and blast the jets. Maybe something is clogged??

I hope the resistance you measured is 22600 ohms or 22.6K ohms. If so, that's a good number.

I would say that sediment in the bottom of the bowl isn't good. That can clog up some of the smaller orifices, especially those associated with starting and idle.

SAND IN YOUR BOWLS..........OH GOLLY!~~~~!!!!! That means that your jet can easily be clogged open and fuel will flow constantly. PLEASE get your tank, lines and of course the carb CLEAN of debris. This can cause lots of unknown problems with not getting fuel. By the way, when your floats are set to the correct height you will have 22mm to 25mm in the bowls. This is from the center of the round impression in the bottom of the bowl........Yes, it can run if this is not set correctly, the floats, but it's good to have it right............

the Static method of setting the points and timing is not a real problem. Make sure to have a cold engine cause you are gonna be down there right by the exhaust and fooling with hot screws and stuff down there can be a real pain......hahah.........
For me, I use an old analog VOM. ohm meter............It's easy to see when that dial moves rather than trying to see digital zeros or numbers......put your transmission in the highest gear, NO spark plugs, and find the allen wrench that fits in the end of the alternator.........DO NOT USE THE BOLT/NUT ON THE END OF THE ADVANCE MECHANISM.......
Now, roll the engine over til the OT mark is centered in the timing hole......I hook my ohm meter up to the condensor wire that goes down to the points and the other lead to the other side of the points. When you have it right is when you have the meter set to resistance you will have full resistance with the guage all the way over to the side that shows a good connection.......
OH Turn off the ignition........some folks use a simple light bulb with connections that show when you have a connection because the light comes on.....if you are using a idiot light bulb turn on the ignition cause you need the power to light the bulb.............
Now it is simple.....rotate the back wheel or ignition to the "S" mark and if your points are set correctly and you are "in time" then the bulb will go dead or the meter guage will drop to zero............

I hope that you can read between the lines on the fact that you have to set the points correctly first then rotate the plate and watch the bulb or guage to show you when you are right on..............I am sure others will follow correcting me or giving better ways; but for me, it has worked on my /2 through 66 Plymouth Fury, or even lawn mowers..............Good luck......God bless.....Dennis

Sand

Well, the sand in the float bowls throws all my advice out the window! Yep, blocked jets passages and ports in the carbs will kill things dead. Despite the carbs recently being rebuilt and set, it sounds like they will have to be done again. St.

STEVENRANKIN said:

Well, the sand in the float bowls throws all my advice out the window! Yep, blocked jets passages and ports in the carbs will kill things dead. Despite the carbs recently being rebuilt and set, it sounds like they will have to be done again. St.

Click to expand...

Well, sounds like time for a fuel filter (and maybe an air filter?) check. Maybe drain and flush the tank. Definitely take off the carbs for a thorough blow out and cleaning.