Repair DVD availability

RadioFlyer · Nov 29, 2022

20774 said:
New York Times headline indicates "A Friedman doctrine‐- The Social Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits".

Exactly.

Milton Friedman is best known for his rejection of what we call Corporate Social Responsibility saying that the only corporate responsibility is to increase profits.

Corporate Social Responsibility looks beyond profits:
"Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) is the idea that a company should play a positive role in the community and consider the environmental and social impact of business decisions. It is closely linked to sustainability − creating economic, social, and environmental value – and ESG, which stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. All three focus on non-financial factors that companies, large and small, should consider when making business decisions."

Adhering to the guidelines dictated by the BMW-controlled BMW Clubs International Council the MOA promotes loyalty to the the BMW brand yet the BMW brand is only loyal to its shareholders. This is said to be a mutually beneficial arrangement by some here. What hypocrisy.

RadioFlyer · Nov 29, 2022

bigjohnsd said:
I have a PDF copy of the manual for my '21 GSA. They are out there. Ebay is your friend.

Yes because it was in late 2021 that BMW discontinued the provision of service information. The new models go without. The R18 owners are on here trying to figure out how to adjust the valves - even how to change the oil elsewhere:

https://www.r18forums.com/threads/i...-our-bikes-yet-or-an-electronic-version.1130/

20774 · Nov 29, 2022

Omega Man · Nov 29, 2022

OM

RadioFlyer · Nov 29, 2022

robsryder · Nov 29, 2022

Omega Man said:
Great lucid and reasonable post.

I don't think that the MOA in its operation, beyond keeping the forum running, can keep track of all the maintenance information. Forum Members can keep supplying that and while "nobody reads stickies" holds true, there are some good ones on important bike related topics.

Such as-

Kurt's Links and References section- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?76-Links-and-References

Wethead Accessories, Mods and DIY's- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?70623-Wetheads-Accessories-Mods-and-DIY-s

K-bikes DIY-Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?54-K-bikes-DIY-Tech-Library

Hexheads/Camheads DIY/Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?44-Hexheads-Camheads-DIY-Tech-Library

There are many others as well, even spread through the Best of Forum section-

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?58-Best-of-the-Forum

How about as a community of riders that have chosen to ride BMW's, we dial back the complaining and be more helpful to one another so these ever increasing in importance maintenance, tips and helpful organized information can remain easily accessed by members.............

OM

Those links above are exactly what I was thinking of. I'd perhaps forgotten that such existed. Sigh.... Alas, this isn't the only thing that I've forgotten. I'd heard that as one gets older that one's energy level is decreased, along with one's strength, and I forget the other thing...

88bmwjeff · Nov 29, 2022

bigjohnsd said:
E-Bay is your friend - Just sayin'.....

Out of curiosity, I tried searching for one for a 2018 R1200 GS and nothing came up. There are versions covering models up to 2017, but nothing that covers 2018. That being said, the older versions would most likely cover any and all servicing/repairs I'd be willing to do at home. Actually, I don't have the time to do any, so I won't be buying one.

On a side note, it's an interesting shift as vehicle manufacturers look for other ways to grow revenue. I can't say I'm happy with all the ways they are trying. The owner's manual for my 1988 R100 RT provides all the information do perform all regular services (e.g. oil changes, timing adjustment, carb adjustments) including torque specs for the bolts.

IMO, there's a difference in providing the information to perform regular maintenance (e.g. oil changes, etc.) and repairs. I also believe it's a safety issue to make sure none of bolts/nuts have come loose, and the ability to properly retighten them is imperative for safe operations. The few torque specs provided in the owner's manual for the 18 GS is limited.

nc5p · Nov 30, 2022

It is interesting how they won't sell us manuals but are perfectly happy to sell us their special tools (at inflated prices of course).

RadioFlyer · Nov 30, 2022

nc5p said:
It is interesting how they won't sell us manuals but are perfectly happy to sell us their special tools (at inflated prices of course).

Good point.

One of the advantages of having a factory service manual is to see ahead of time where a procedure requires a special tool giving one the opportunity to check out the cost of the tool and to research alternatives. There have been some good workarounds developed by innovative minds and/or replicas of special tools manufactured and sold by entrpreneurs.

RadioFlyer · Dec 11, 2022

Elsewhere Visian mentioned trying out ChatGPT (an online AI conversationalist) so i thought I would give it a try.

I asked it:
"Should BMW motorcycle owners have service manuals?"

Here is the ChatGPT response:

"Yes, it is always a good idea for motorcycle owners to have a service manual for their bike. A service manual provides detailed instructions on how to properly maintain and service your motorcycle, and can be an invaluable resource if you need to perform repairs yourself. It is especially important for BMW motorcycle owners to have a service manual, as BMW motorcycles are known for their complex and high-performance engineering. Having a service manual can help you understand the inner workings of your motorcycle and ensure that it continues to run smoothly and reliably."

BMW should listen to AI wisdom.

akbeemer · Dec 11, 2022

RadioFlyer said:
Elsewhere Visian mentioned trying out ChatGPT (an online AI conversationalist) so i thought I would give it a try.

I asked it:
"Should BMW motorcycle owners have service manuals?"

Here is the ChatGPT response:

"Yes, it is always a good idea for motorcycle owners to have a service manual for their bike. A service manual provides detailed instructions on how to properly maintain and service your motorcycle, and can be an invaluable resource if you need to perform repairs yourself. It is especially important for BMW motorcycle owners to have a service manual, as BMW motorcycles are known for their complex and high-performance engineering. Having a service manual can help you understand the inner workings of your motorcycle and ensure that it continues to run smoothly and reliably."

BMW should listen to AI wisdom.

BMW's question would be closer to; Should BMW do everything possible to maximize profits for its shareholders?

52184 · Dec 11, 2022

akbeemer said:
BMW's question would be closer to; Should BMW do everything possible to maximize profits for its shareholders?

That’s more a philosophical question than an operational or real world question. Perhaps a more straightforward question might be “Will BMW’s denial of service information to consumers result in higher or lower overall profits for BMWAG?”

Personally, I’m in the “lower” camp as I don’t anticipate spending $$ on any new bike that lacks an affordable path to service information.

Best,
DeVern

Omega Man · Dec 11, 2022

I'm surprised that anyone would go through the registration process with ChatGPT just to obtain an answer to a question that has been answered ad nauseam.

:hungover

OM

52184 · Dec 11, 2022

Omega Man said:
I'm surprised that anyone would go through the registration process with ChatGPT just to obtain an answer to a question that has been answered ad nauseam.

OM

That’s precisely why so many people go there—to test the new-fangled technology by submitting a question to which they already hold an answer, at least for themselves. The received response either validates the already-held answer, in which case the new tech is proclaimed AOK, or is in contention to the already-held answer, in which case the new tech is clearly an element of a subversive plot and should be condemned, loudly and at length, on social media. And assigned a pejorative nickname.

Best,
DeVern

60aviator · Dec 12, 2022

Omega Man said:
I'm surprised that anyone would go through the registration process with ChatGPT just to obtain an answer to a question that has been answered ad nauseam.

OM

By "answered ad nauseam" do you mean MOA and the Kool Aid drinkers doing absolutely nothing for the owners, defending BMW Corp, putting down complainers, and just saying suck it up?
My main complaint is that MOA hasn't done a single thing to represent the owners.

Omega Man · Dec 12, 2022

60aviator said:
By "answered ad nauseam" do you mean MOA and the Kool Aid drinkers doing absolutely nothing for the owners, defending BMW Corp, putting down complainers, and just saying suck it up?
My main complaint is that MOA hasn't done a single thing to represent the owners.

Constant complaining about a decision made at the corporate level at BMW here on the forum will do little as I doubt anyone from BMW corporate frequents the forum. A while back I posted the addresses of BMW NJ and Berlin with the suggestion that anyone not happy with this decision to not (easily) supply a repair manual contact BMW directly.
How many have?
Trying to change a corporations direction usually starts at the corporation's wallet. Personally, I don't understand a number of directions BMW has taken such as the logo and imposed complication of more dealerships.
I like my F800GS. If I didn't or was displeased with BMW (corporate) as a company, I would move on.
As far as the MOA "doing something", maybe they have sent off a note? I don't think it's their job to lead a charge on BMW.......as to what end?
As there actually is access to a repair manual- at the dealers, I think that covers BMW. Can-AM was pestered about ATV/UTV owners not being able to reset their service and related information on their rides. The end result is BUDDS being able to be purchased on Amazon- for around $900.00. Who knows, maybe this will be the end result? Then the complaining will be that it is too expensive?
Ranting ad nauseam about the lack of a repair manual here on the forum is like standing in Time Square with a sandwich board hoping to change something.
OM

pglaves · Dec 12, 2022

Omega Man said:
Constant complaining about a decision made at the corporate level at BMW here on the forum will do little as I doubt anyone from BMW corporate frequents the forum.
OM

I am fairly certain that BMW Motorrad USA does monitor this Forum. Maybe not every post but ...

Omega Man · Dec 12, 2022

PGlaves said:
I am fairly certain that BMW Motorrad USA does monitor this Forum. Maybe not every post but ...

If they do, I think that validates my point about that all the concerns/complaining have made any difference?
OM

60aviator · Dec 12, 2022

Omega Man said:
Constant complaining about a decision made at the corporate level at BMW here on the forum will do little as I doubt anyone from BMW corporate frequents the forum. A while back I posted the addresses of BMW NJ and Berlin with the suggestion that anyone not happy with this decision to not (easily) supply a repair manual contact BMW directly.
How many have?
Trying to change a corporations direction usually starts at the corporation's wallet. Personally, I don't understand a number of directions BMW has taken such as the logo and imposed complication of more dealerships.
I like my F800GS. If I didn't or was displeased with BMW (corporate) as a company, I would move on.
As far as the MOA "doing something", maybe they have sent off a note? I don't think it's their job to lead a charge on BMW.......as to what end?
As there actually is access to a repair manual- at the dealers, I think that covers BMW. Can-AM was pestered about ATV/UTV owners not being able to reset their service and related information on their rides. The end result is BUDDS being able to be purchased on Amazon- for around $900.00. Who knows, maybe this will be the end result? Then the complaining will be that it is too expensive?
Ranting ad nauseam about the lack of a repair manual here on the forum is like standing in Time Square with a sandwich board hoping to change something.
OM

Believe me I have done all I can through BMW NA, State and Federal Govt offices, and my Representatives. I filed a complaint with my State AG's office about no information (even Owner's manual then had no basic info) on servicing my 21 RT after I had it for a couple of months. They sent a letter to BMW NA and then I was contacted by BMW NA that they had a service CD for me and assured me it covered my bike. No it didn't as it stopped at 2020 models.

Big difference between nothing and something and don't expect MOA to actually solve this. MOA is supposed to be a liaison between us and Corp. How about a simple tactful letter to BMW stating unpopularity of this decision, any plans in the future to make service information available in some way, and their plan if states pass "Right to Repair" laws. Just try and get some information for your members and at least appear impartial.

Venting on Forums is a way to deal with frustration and doesn't help when others put you down for it. How about stopping new oil threads, people not searching to help themselves first, or posting a new thread about something that has been answered/beat to death. Forums are great but there are many irritable things that go with them.

Omega Man · Dec 12, 2022

60aviator said:
Believe me I have done all I can through BMW NA, State and Federal Govt offices, and my Representatives. I filed a complaint with my State AG's office about no information (even Owner's manual then had no basic info) on servicing my 21 RT after I had it for a couple of months. They sent a letter to BMW NA and then I was contacted by BMW NA that they had a service CD for me and assured me it covered my bike. No it didn't as it stopped at 2020 models.

Big difference between nothing and something and don't expect MOA to actually solve this. MOA is supposed to be a liaison between us and Corp. How about a simple tactful letter to BMW stating unpopularity of this decision, any plans in the future to make service information available in some way, and their plan if states pass "Right to Repair" laws. Just try and get some information for your members and at least appear impartial.

Venting on Forums is a way to deal with frustration and doesn't help when others put you down for it. How about stopping new oil threads, people not searching to help themselves first, or posting a new thread about something that has been answered/beat to death. Forums are great but there are many irritable things that go with them.

Great to hear how you have take the direct approach with BMW. :clap

OM

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