Repair DVD availability

[robsryder]

My most recent purchase of a new BMW was in 2018 for a R1200 RT. I obtained the service documentation on a disk and the contents were installed on a laptop kept in the garage.

I was interested in a Triumph Tiger 900 and I told the dealer that I would not buy a bike unless the service manual was available. Triumph had discontinued selling a paper service manual a few years earlier. Fortunately in mid-2021 the Triumph service manual was available on-line and one could purchase access in chunks as small as one hour (about $7 or $8 US). Someone had written a program that integrated with certain browsers that would allow for the downloading of the entire manual for a particular bike and creation of a pdf file. I chose to do this before purchasing the 2022 Tiger 900. Subsequently Triumph has gone to a different presentation method for the service information that precludes downloading. One must either be online or go through a cumbersome screen-capture process. I let the Triumph dealer know that I would not be buying any new Triumphs until I could again get a set of service documents. At least Triumph only charges something around $9 per month for online access - I have gone this route to obtain the updates, saved via the cumbersome screen capture process.

I was interested in the new Ducati Desert-X. Alas, Ducati also does not make available a service manual. I let the Ducati dealer know that I would not be buying a new Ducati. Similarly, I let the local BMW dealer (same guy as Ducati dealer!) know that no service manual or document means no sale to me.

That is my feedback into the motorcycle universe.

As a side note - when the new oilhead bikes came out in late 1993; the first model was the R1100RS, I bought a nice red R1100RS (still have it). There was no service info available. Someone obtained a copy of the notes made available to various BMW techs and sent paper copies around to interested owners. I still have these notes along with many handwritten notes in a 3-ring binder.

In the early days of the more widely available internet (early 1990s), the Internet BMW Riders (IBMWR) was formed. The "organization" officers had to be named. It was decided that everyone in IBMWR would be "president". A website was created and interested parties could contribute tips and service hints. There have been electronic compilations of these tips. See - IBMWR.org

Nowadays, we have electronic manuals in pdf or other forms. I miss being able to write and keep handwritten notes. But on the plus side we have folks (like BoxFlyer) producing excellent videos illustrating various service procedures. In many ways these videos are the next best thing to having a "guru" in the garage providing advice and lending a hand. These videos are accessible on YouTube. I think that the BMWMOA could make a list of links to these videos as a service to the owners.

[Omega Man]

My most recent purchase of a new BMW was in 2018 for a R1200 RT. I obtained the service documentation on a disk and the contents were installed on a laptop kept in the garage.

I was interested in a Triumph Tiger 900 and I told the dealer that I would not buy a bike unless the service manual was available. Triumph had discontinued selling a paper service manual a few years earlier. Fortunately in mid-2021 the Triumph service manual was available on-line and one could purchase access in chunks as small as one hour (about $7 or $8 US). Someone had written a program that integrated with certain browsers that would allow for the downloading of the entire manual for a particular bike and creation of a pdf file. I chose to do this before purchasing the 2022 Tiger 900. Subsequently Triumph has gone to a different presentation method for the service information that precludes downloading. One must either be online or go through a cumbersome screen-capture process. I let the Triumph dealer know that I would not be buying any new Triumphs until I could again get a set of service documents. At least Triumph only charges something around $9 per month for online access - I have gone this route to obtain the updates, saved via the cumbersome screen capture process.

I was interested in the new Ducati Desert-X. Alas, Ducati also does not make available a service manual. I let the Ducati dealer know that I would not be buying a new Ducati. Similarly, I let the local BMW dealer (same guy as Ducati dealer!) know that no service manual or document means no sale to me.

That is my feedback into the motorcycle universe.

As a side note - when the new oilhead bikes came out in late 1993; the first model was the R1100RS, I bought a nice red R1100RS (still have it). There was no service info available. Someone obtained a copy of the notes made available to various BMW techs and sent paper copies around to interested owners. I still have these notes along with many handwritten notes in a 3-ring binder.

In the early days of the more widely available internet (early 1990s), the Internet BMW Riders (IBMWR) was formed. The "organization" officers had to be named. It was decided that everyone in IBMWR would be "president". A website was created and interested parties could contribute tips and service hints. There have been electronic compilations of these tips. See - IBMWR.org

Nowadays, we have electronic manuals in pdf or other forms. I miss being able to write and keep handwritten notes. But on the plus side we have folks (like BoxFlyer) producing excellent videos illustrating various service procedures. In many ways these videos are the next best thing to having a "guru" in the garage providing advice and lending a hand. These videos are accessible on YouTube. I think that the BMWMOA could make a list of links to these videos as a service to the owners.

Great lucid and reasonable post.

I don't think that the MOA in its operation, beyond keeping the forum running, can keep track of all the maintenance information. Forum Members can keep supplying that and while "nobody reads stickies" holds true, there are some good ones on important bike related topics.

Such as-

Kurt's Links and References section- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...and-References

Wethead Accessories, Mods and DIY's- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...Mods-and-DIY-s

K-bikes DIY-Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...Y-Tech-Library

Hexheads/Camheads DIY/Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...Y-Tech-Library

There are many others as well, even spread through the Best of Forum section-

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...t-of-the-Forum

How about as a community of riders that have chosen to ride BMW's, we dial back the complaining and be more helpful to one another so these ever increasing in importance maintenance, tips and helpful organized information can remain easily accessed by members.............

OM

[RadioFlyer]

Attachment 90049

Now that's really funny. Milton Friedman totally rejected Corporate Social Responsibility and BMW boasts of its many CSR efforts and accomplishments. Oh the irony! Oh the hypocrisy!

https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/rossl...nsibility.html

[20774]

New York Times headline indicates "A Friedman doctrine‐- The Social Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits".

[bigjohnsd]

"Someone is going to bootleg a copy and put it on the internet and things will return to somewhat normal."

Copy of what? There is no RepROM for the new models as they come out.

"At some point, someone will pirate the info as mentioned and/or the manual publishers will catch up."

It hasn't happened with the BMW cars so there is no reason to believe that it will happen with the motorcycles. This is a false hope.

I have a PDF copy of the manual for my '21 GSA. They are out there. Ebay is your friend.

[RadioFlyer]

New York Times headline indicates "A Friedman doctrine‐- The Social Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits".

Exactly.

Milton Friedman is best known for his rejection of what we call Corporate Social Responsibility saying that the only corporate responsibility is to increase profits.

Corporate Social Responsibility looks beyond profits:
"Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) is the idea that a company should play a positive role in the community and consider the environmental and social impact of business decisions. It is closely linked to sustainability − creating economic, social, and environmental value – and ESG, which stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. All three focus on non-financial factors that companies, large and small, should consider when making business decisions."

Adhering to the guidelines dictated by the BMW-controlled BMW Clubs International Council the MOA promotes loyalty to the the BMW brand yet the BMW brand is only loyal to its shareholders. This is said to be a mutually beneficial arrangement by some here. What hypocrisy.

[RadioFlyer]

I have a PDF copy of the manual for my '21 GSA. They are out there. Ebay is your friend.

Yes because it was in late 2021 that BMW discontinued the provision of service information. The new models go without. The R18 owners are on here trying to figure out how to adjust the valves - even how to change the oil elsewhere:

https://www.r18forums.com/threads/is...-version.1130/

[20774]

[Omega Man]

OM

[RadioFlyer]

Ad hominem.jpg

[robsryder]

Great lucid and reasonable post.

I don't think that the MOA in its operation, beyond keeping the forum running, can keep track of all the maintenance information. Forum Members can keep supplying that and while "nobody reads stickies" holds true, there are some good ones on important bike related topics.

Such as-

Kurt's Links and References section- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...and-References

Wethead Accessories, Mods and DIY's- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...Mods-and-DIY-s

K-bikes DIY-Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...Y-Tech-Library

Hexheads/Camheads DIY/Tech Library- https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...Y-Tech-Library

There are many others as well, even spread through the Best of Forum section-

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdispl...t-of-the-Forum

How about as a community of riders that have chosen to ride BMW's, we dial back the complaining and be more helpful to one another so these ever increasing in importance maintenance, tips and helpful organized information can remain easily accessed by members.............

OM

Those links above are exactly what I was thinking of. I'd perhaps forgotten that such existed. Sigh.... Alas, this isn't the only thing that I've forgotten. I'd heard that as one gets older that one's energy level is decreased, along with one's strength, and I forget the other thing...

[88bmwjeff]

E-Bay is your friend - Just sayin'.....

Out of curiosity, I tried searching for one for a 2018 R1200 GS and nothing came up. There are versions covering models up to 2017, but nothing that covers 2018. That being said, the older versions would most likely cover any and all servicing/repairs I'd be willing to do at home. Actually, I don't have the time to do any, so I won't be buying one.

On a side note, it's an interesting shift as vehicle manufacturers look for other ways to grow revenue. I can't say I'm happy with all the ways they are trying. The owner's manual for my 1988 R100 RT provides all the information do perform all regular services (e.g. oil changes, timing adjustment, carb adjustments) including torque specs for the bolts.

IMO, there's a difference in providing the information to perform regular maintenance (e.g. oil changes, etc.) and repairs. I also believe it's a safety issue to make sure none of bolts/nuts have come loose, and the ability to properly retighten them is imperative for safe operations. The few torque specs provided in the owner's manual for the 18 GS is limited.

[nc5p]

It is interesting how they won't sell us manuals but are perfectly happy to sell us their special tools (at inflated prices of course).

[RadioFlyer]

It is interesting how they won't sell us manuals but are perfectly happy to sell us their special tools (at inflated prices of course).

Good point.

One of the advantages of having a factory service manual is to see ahead of time where a procedure requires a special tool giving one the opportunity to check out the cost of the tool and to research alternatives. There have been some good workarounds developed by innovative minds and/or replicas of special tools manufactured and sold by entrpreneurs.

[RadioFlyer]

Elsewhere Visian mentioned trying out ChatGPT (an online AI conversationalist) so i thought I would give it a try.

I asked it:
"Should BMW motorcycle owners have service manuals?"

Here is the ChatGPT response:

"Yes, it is always a good idea for motorcycle owners to have a service manual for their bike. A service manual provides detailed instructions on how to properly maintain and service your motorcycle, and can be an invaluable resource if you need to perform repairs yourself. It is especially important for BMW motorcycle owners to have a service manual, as BMW motorcycles are known for their complex and high-performance engineering. Having a service manual can help you understand the inner workings of your motorcycle and ensure that it continues to run smoothly and reliably."

BMW should listen to AI wisdom.