The future of ICE auto's is emerging sorry off BMW topic

[vtbob]

Here is a bit of a Bloomberg article this morning.

Motorcycle evolution will be much different much slower....but investment in ICE engine development is Very close to it's end. ie we are seeing the best engines now or in very near future.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...g/v0/-1x-1.png

[AKsuited]

I don't believe ending production of ICE cars will happen any time soon, especially in the US and Canada where distances are greater than in Europe. And this coming from a guy whose car is a plug-in hybrid Prius Prime.

How are you going to do a cross-country trip in an all-electric car? You would need a range of at least 400 miles and every motel out there would have to provide charging stations, and many of them. My opinion - that will never happen. This is just a woke fairy tale, that every car will be electric. I'll say it again, the sweet spot is plug-in hybrid cars - no restriction on range, and impressive fuel economy. I'm not knocking electric cars, just saying that people who want to do road trips in their car will need something other than all-electric to take those trips.

Harry

[PGlaves]

I'm not knocking electric cars, just saying that people who want to do road trips in their car will need something other than all-electric to take those trips.

Harry

One of our most enjoyable trips recently was by train from Alpine, Texas to San Francisco by train to attend the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in Golden Gate Park.

Or travel by E-Car in the norther tier of states where motels already have outlets for engine heaters,

[AKsuited]

Or travel by E-Car in the norther tier of states where motels already have outlets for engine heaters,

New York is in that northern tier of states and I have never seen an engine block heater cord. We did stay at a Red Roof in Malone, NY, which had a couple of charging stations, which I used. We just got back from a car trip to NH - no electric cords or charging stations at the motel, and NH is in that northern tier of states.

Just sayin' - it would take a huge commitment in providing charging stations, most of it by private-sector motels, to enable long distance travel in electric cars, and I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Harry

[PoorUB]

New York is in that northern tier of states and I have never seen an engine block heater cord. We did stay at a Red Roof in Malone, NY, which had a couple of charging stations, which I used. We just got back from a car trip to NH - no electric cords or charging stations at the motel, and NH is in that northern tier of states.

Just sayin' - it would take a huge commitment in providing charging stations, most of it by private-sector motels, to enable long distance travel in electric cars, and I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Harry

I used to travel all over North Dakota and plug ins are getting harder to find. If a motel had them, there was limited access to them. Modern automobiles will start much more reliably than those built 30-40 years ago. I never plugged in my work truck even when it hit -30F.

I can see most people having one electric and one gasser. The electric can be used to commute the few miles to work and back and the gaser for longer trips. For us west of the Mississippi it is not unusual to run a few hundred miles in a day and if I could find a charging station I really don't want to sit for an hour or two just watching electrons flow.

Some time age I saw a video and the person speaking claims in a few years, at least in the big cities, most people will not even own a car. For one reason real estate is too expensive to park one. You will get up in the morning and hop into a Uber for your ride to work. He figured there will be many companies like Uber with fleets of vehicles.

Electric cars in large numbers will happen some day, but I seriously doubt it will be as soon as planned.

[motormike]

Some time age I saw a video and the person speaking claims in a few years, at least in the big cities, most people will not even own a car. For one reason real estate is too expensive to park one. You will get up in the morning and hop into a Uber for your ride to work. He figured there will be many companies like Uber with fleets of vehicles.
.

This is probably closest to the truth. In the cities, with Uber and Lift, kids today aren't even interested in getting their drivers license at age 16. Man, when I grew up, that's the very FIRST thing you did on your 16th birthday!

[88bmwjeff]

Some time age I saw a video and the person speaking claims in a few years, at least in the big cities, most people will not even own a car. For one reason real estate is too expensive to park one. You will get up in the morning and hop into a Uber for your ride to work. He figured there will be many companies like Uber with fleets of vehicles.

I noticed a shift in zoning laws in the big cities in the San Francisco Bay Area from minimum parking requirements to maximum parking requirements. Those in charge are hoping to get people out of their cars into public transit. And, use a carsharing service (e.g. Zipcar) for the few times when a car is needed. I've seem a parking requirement for a minimum number of parking spaces for a carsharing services in newer apartment buildings. The main thought is to have an impact on traffic.

[doodledog]

New York is in that northern tier of states and I have never seen an engine block heater cord. We did stay at a Red Roof in Malone, NY, which had a couple of charging stations, which I used. We just got back from a car trip to NH - no electric cords or charging stations at the motel, and NH is in that northern tier of states.

Just sayin' - it would take a huge commitment in providing charging stations, most of it by private-sector motels, to enable long distance travel in electric cars, and I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Harry

Last year on a great trip to eastern Canada, from the west, I was unfortunately held up in Wawa, Ontario with a blown tire on my RT. During my stay while enjoying the charming amenities, I noticed a bank of 6 Tesla Superchargers. Wawa, located at the NE corner of Lake Superior, is about as remote as it gets in Canada, population 2700, and I believe three gas pumps. And 6 Tesla chargers. I can't imagine more than a handful of full electrics a day going through there, but there they were. FYI "Electric vehicles not made by Tesla can charge at Tesla charging stations but a Tesla adapter is needed. Tesla supercharger stations however cannot be used by non-Tesla vehicles. However, Tesla has announced that they are working on developing a supercharger station that will work for non-Tesla vehicles". P.S. don't be in need of a motorcycle tire in Wawa, Ontario.

[Omega Man]

I’m pretty sure Tesla charging stations are installed as a “module”. The main infrastructure is rather involved and the largest part of installing a charge station. After going through all that construction, it doesn’t make sense to not install the full complement of chargers.
OM

[taran1900]

Here is a bit of a Bloomberg article this morning.

Motorcycle evolution will be much different much slower....but investment in ICE engine development is Very close to it's end. ie we are seeing the best engines now or in very near future.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...g/v0/-1x-1.png

That graphic has nothing to do with the development state of the ICE. It's all about thinking we'll save the earth if we ban nasty fossil fuel vehicles. Governments run by technocrats who have no clue about life in the real world are mandating it. I think the earth would beg to differ about being saved, as would the people who live where the materials for batteries and electric motors are mined.

https://interestingengineering.com/c...ining-business
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel...h=20c233c176d2

Modern ICE vehicles emit a fraction of the pollutants of what they did when I was growing up (60s-70s). I remember how bad cars and trucks stunk and the pollution when we'd visit family up in the Northeast US back then. Yeah, they are still emitting carbon from the combustion process, but the fossil fuel power plants generating electricity are too. With current state of batteries and the power grid, what is being done by switching to electric cars now is one form of pollution and carbon emissions is being traded for another. Which is actually better? Highly evolved, very clean modern ICE powered vehicles which already have an infrastructure in place or still very new, crude battery powered ones whose impact to the land is far greater than the internal combustion engine?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...ronment-impact

Want to really know why that chart shows what it does? Follow the money. Most of it leads to our politicians via China.

[vtbob]

That graphic has nothing to do with the development state of the ICE. It's all about thinking we'll save the earth if we ban nasty fossil fuel vehicles. Governments run by technocrats who have no clue about life in the real world are mandating it. I think the earth would beg to differ about being saved, as would the people who live where the materials for batteries and electric motors are mined.

https://interestingengineering.com/c...ining-business
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel...h=20c233c176d2

Modern ICE vehicles emit a fraction of the pollutants of what they did when I was growing up (60s-70s). I remember how bad cars and trucks stunk and the pollution when we'd visit family up in the Northeast US back then. Yeah, they are still emitting carbon from the combustion process, but the fossil fuel power plants generating electricity are too. With current state of batteries and the power grid, what is being done by switching to electric cars now is one form of pollution and carbon emissions is being traded for another. Which is actually better? Highly evolved, very clean modern ICE powered vehicles which already have an infrastructure in place or still very new, crude battery powered ones whose impact to the land is far greater than the internal combustion engine?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...ronment-impact

Want to really know why that chart shows what it does? Follow the money. Most of it leads to our politicians via China.

Yep, a perspective from the status quo

Some places are moving ahead, dealing with pollution, climate change. Here in Vt our power grid is 100% renewable, yep some wood powered but mostly hydro, by a lot and solar and wind. So getting away from ICE here really does make a difference....

I do agree, living is a rural area battery cars in winter is a real challenge. Time and capitalism will improve the number of charging stations and range of the cars. ( who needs 600hp and 3 seconds to 60??) Less powerful cars need less battery, etc etc

ps The text from the Bloomberg article was dropped.....Calif and Mass are following the EU ICE auto time line. Some other states will follow them in time. The US as a whole will never do it ...to much money in the fossil fuel industry lobby.

[jad01]

Somehow, I think e-car manufacturers are eventually going to have to agree to a standardized, swappable battery platform that can be changed at "service stations". That would take advantage of existing infrastructure (e.g., existing gas/service stations), and address the charge time required for travelers. As for the issue of mining, no good option there, in my view... any type of mining tends to be bad for the local environment, whether it's coal, oil, natural gas, lithium, copper... you name it.

Ostensibly, the advantage of the batteries is that the "parts" can be recycled/remanufactured at the end of their lifecycle, and as Bob points out, can be charged with renewable energy sources. Most of the major oil companies are heavily invested in renewables, and are leading in developing renewable energy service contracts with big energy users in tech (i.e., Google) and distribution (i.e., Amazon) if that tells you anything.

[kbasa]

Think about how often we really do a 500 mile day. A Mustang Mach E goes 270 in the real world. Even when I was commuting, that was a week of driving.

EVs will work fine for a huge swath of the population for 95% of their driving needs. Add in fueling it off your roof and EVs become economically advantageous over ICE vehicles.

We have 5 bikes, an SUV, a sports car and a pickup. An EV will join that set and will likely do the bulk of our chores.

And attempts to frame the current situation as being better than the past are a very weak argument against moving ahead. A D is better than getting an F, but not by much and not to a point we’d call “success”. We still get a D-, imho.

[PGlaves]

We still get a D-, imho.

[Visian]

Think about how often we really do a 500 mile day. A Mustang Mach E goes 270 in the real world. Even when I was commuting, that was a week of driving.

As we’ve traveled around the west, trailering my 70mpg Honda CB500X to fabulous riding areas, I could not have taken one of my rides on an electric motorcycle. As much as I want one (really Jonesing bad for a Zero DSR) the only thing you can do with an e-bike is commute. And I am RETIRED!

Today I rode from Custer to Spearfish to Newcastle and back to Custer. I would have had to overnight in Spearfish on an e-bike.

At my home in WNC my typical ride would take at least 1 battery recharge or I’d have to head back home at the 50-mile out point.

That is the basic reason for the D- you speak of.

We will get there, it will take time and fresh technology ideas.

For now I am going to stick with a fuel-efficient ICE bike at 25% of the cost of a DSR… with dealers nationwide!