Hi all, this isn't directed at one engine/bike type, so I wanted to put it here to catch a majority of owners,
there is an issue of many bike's owner's manuals from the past few years, having a comment in the oil section that refers confusingly to a prohibition from oil additives, and an example is given that mentions Molybdenum as an additive - problem is, BMW doesn't make it sufficiently clear (lots of putative reasons why, in discussions all over the 'net) what they mean by additives . . .
so, being a chemistry lover (don't bother with snide comments, my skin's too thick!) and a fervent user/believer from the past in the Ester family (we all know them well), I sent in virgin samples of my favourite Motul oils, a 5w40 7100 and the same weight of 300V (my ultimate goal, after warranty). I also sent in a virgin sample of the BMW Advantec 5w40 ("Ultimate", I think that they call it) so as to compare, amongst other things, the amount of elemental Molybdenum in each, so as to at least know whether a user of the Motuls would be using more Mo than in the BMW (probably Shell's gas-to-liquid oil, seems the main opinion).
It turns out that in fact the BMW oil is employing some form/forms of Mo that come out to approx. almost 5 times as much as the Motul sisters (161 ppm versus the Motul's 33 ppm). So anyone choosing to try a 7100 or 300V (300V changed every 3000 mi to keep it in the good form it was intended by Motul) can rest knowing that, as far as current production lots go at least, they are not using an oil with too high a Mo level (measured as elemental Mo, not saying what actual form/s were added to the oil)
It also adds some support to the notion that BMW was perhaps stating by their word "Additives" that they meant anything added to the oil after departing the factory, rather than as part of an additive package blended in by the original manufacturer . . . though that's still unclear unfortunately (yes, I know of the discussion elsewhere having a letter back from a local BMW rep. about this meaning, and the further arguments that ensued).
I am happy to communicate the results of the lab tests (Blackstone of course) to anyone who is interested - but generally, other elemental differences are that the BMW oil also contained a lot of Boron (possibly as a slippery-slidey?), a similar amount of Calcium to the two Motuls, and a moderate amount of Phosphorous and Zinc (yes, I'm Canadian).
By comparison, the two Motuls, which were nearly identical in elemental contents, contained roughly 50% more Phos/Zinc (so . . . ZDDP? -- maybe not, given catalysts etc.), much less Mo as I've said, along with a notable amount of Si (anti-foaming?) and little Boron.
Interestingly (well, it's all interesting), the 7100 being a full-on regular road oil meant for normal usage intervals, has twice as much Magnesium as it's more race-oriented 300V -- the good folks at Blackstone, and my little library, note that Magnesium is a common component of detergents and dispersants, so that would make sense.
It seems that the BMW oil may have a bigger, more expanded additive package in some regards, compared to the Motuls, which, given the French use of at least some ester base oils and PAO's probably, might be due to their base oil composition having better natural lubricating abilities than the BMW and so needing less additions. Who knows. Fun to think about.
It's also fun, though ultimately useless, to speculate about BMW's use of Boron (is it maybe, slidey sheets of Boron Nitride? that would be cool, and might even be the same fancy engine-parts coating that they note in the owner's manual, that could be scratched by too much Mo. Maybe it's sort of an oil re-supplementation thing?).
Anyway, though I'm not a person who necessarily expects to feel a difference between one oil and another, in a gearbox or engine, I do know the details of value in the group V Esters and have indeed had a couple of engines with quite high mileage indeed, tear down with amazingly low wear, after years on Motul (or Red Line, in fact). My reason for use is to have less engine/gear wear over the years. That's all.
Good cheer to all of you folks South of me on your 4th of July!
Peter
there is an issue of many bike's owner's manuals from the past few years, having a comment in the oil section that refers confusingly to a prohibition from oil additives, and an example is given that mentions Molybdenum as an additive - problem is, BMW doesn't make it sufficiently clear (lots of putative reasons why, in discussions all over the 'net) what they mean by additives . . .
so, being a chemistry lover (don't bother with snide comments, my skin's too thick!) and a fervent user/believer from the past in the Ester family (we all know them well), I sent in virgin samples of my favourite Motul oils, a 5w40 7100 and the same weight of 300V (my ultimate goal, after warranty). I also sent in a virgin sample of the BMW Advantec 5w40 ("Ultimate", I think that they call it) so as to compare, amongst other things, the amount of elemental Molybdenum in each, so as to at least know whether a user of the Motuls would be using more Mo than in the BMW (probably Shell's gas-to-liquid oil, seems the main opinion).
It turns out that in fact the BMW oil is employing some form/forms of Mo that come out to approx. almost 5 times as much as the Motul sisters (161 ppm versus the Motul's 33 ppm). So anyone choosing to try a 7100 or 300V (300V changed every 3000 mi to keep it in the good form it was intended by Motul) can rest knowing that, as far as current production lots go at least, they are not using an oil with too high a Mo level (measured as elemental Mo, not saying what actual form/s were added to the oil)
It also adds some support to the notion that BMW was perhaps stating by their word "Additives" that they meant anything added to the oil after departing the factory, rather than as part of an additive package blended in by the original manufacturer . . . though that's still unclear unfortunately (yes, I know of the discussion elsewhere having a letter back from a local BMW rep. about this meaning, and the further arguments that ensued).
I am happy to communicate the results of the lab tests (Blackstone of course) to anyone who is interested - but generally, other elemental differences are that the BMW oil also contained a lot of Boron (possibly as a slippery-slidey?), a similar amount of Calcium to the two Motuls, and a moderate amount of Phosphorous and Zinc (yes, I'm Canadian).
By comparison, the two Motuls, which were nearly identical in elemental contents, contained roughly 50% more Phos/Zinc (so . . . ZDDP? -- maybe not, given catalysts etc.), much less Mo as I've said, along with a notable amount of Si (anti-foaming?) and little Boron.
Interestingly (well, it's all interesting), the 7100 being a full-on regular road oil meant for normal usage intervals, has twice as much Magnesium as it's more race-oriented 300V -- the good folks at Blackstone, and my little library, note that Magnesium is a common component of detergents and dispersants, so that would make sense.
It seems that the BMW oil may have a bigger, more expanded additive package in some regards, compared to the Motuls, which, given the French use of at least some ester base oils and PAO's probably, might be due to their base oil composition having better natural lubricating abilities than the BMW and so needing less additions. Who knows. Fun to think about.
It's also fun, though ultimately useless, to speculate about BMW's use of Boron (is it maybe, slidey sheets of Boron Nitride? that would be cool, and might even be the same fancy engine-parts coating that they note in the owner's manual, that could be scratched by too much Mo. Maybe it's sort of an oil re-supplementation thing?).
Anyway, though I'm not a person who necessarily expects to feel a difference between one oil and another, in a gearbox or engine, I do know the details of value in the group V Esters and have indeed had a couple of engines with quite high mileage indeed, tear down with amazingly low wear, after years on Motul (or Red Line, in fact). My reason for use is to have less engine/gear wear over the years. That's all.
Good cheer to all of you folks South of me on your 4th of July!
Peter
