A Turkey riding a GS

Never saw this rider check his mirrors. For each rider in our group, he played this same game - nails it out of a curve and takes off down the straight. You'd think after one rider passes him, he'd check up . . . How often has this happened to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5LQ6TGWMxY

Whewww, I got a headache watching you ride!

Maybe he wasn't concerned about people passing because of the double yellow!

indycar said:

Never saw this rider check his mirrors. For each rider in our group, he played this same game - nails it out of a curve and takes off down the straight. You'd think after one rider passes him, he'd check up . . . How often has this happened to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5LQ6TGWMxY

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So- accelerate out of the curve, take off on the straight...so far so good...his 20's MPH on the curves would be maddening to a more experienced rider.\ I mighta woulda tried to get close and flash (or even honk) for him to make room to pass on the correct side of double yellow. I can't tell if he's looking in his mirror or not on the vid. I wouldn't call him a turkey till he was unresponsive to same lane pass attempts.

He's a turkey. It's pretty accepted common courtesy on curvy roads to move over, slow down and let a faster rider pass. In my experience, many cagers will even do that for you so no excuse for a rider IMHO.

So, what was the nature of this group of riders? A group ride? A bunch of riders who just happened to catch up? That makes a difference. Often with group rides the least experienced rider is encouraged to go first and the rest of the group just tolerate the pace. Or the impatient hot shoes pass while more moderate riders just follow along.

PGlaves said:

So, what was the nature of this group of riders? A group ride? A bunch of riders who just happened to catch up? That makes a difference. Often with group rides the least experienced rider is encouraged to go first and the rest of the group just tolerate the pace. Or the impatient hot shoes pass while more moderate riders just follow along.

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I was making the assumption he wasn't part of the group, but your observations are accurate if he was. Although, it's also been my experience when riding in groups (which I rarely do and only if the group is small and I know the other riders skill levels), slower riders will always encourage faster riders to go first with an understood meet up point.

Those turns were oh so scary!

So the rider appears to be somewhat inexperienced, or a flatlander who learned to ride in Iowa or Kansas or the Texas Panhandle, or some other curveless straight road state. And as far as his speed is concerned he is doing exactly what he/she should do; what the rider courses teach: enter the curve at a speed at which you are competent and safe. I would rather have to follow more slowly than I prefer for a curve or two than have to break out the first aid kit and practice what I learned in Accident Scene Management. Motorcycle wrecks suck.

ADDED: A vehicle is entitled to the full width of the lane where it is situated, except in lane sharing states, of course.

We all were semi-competent rookies at some point in our riding career.

This is a bit of an aside but if pressed to do so I could name a dozen riders - usually spouses or significant others - who tried to ride with their more experienced counterparts whether male or female, and were scared to death just trying to keep up with the macho rider ahead. And almost all of them quit riding before they even had a chance to get good. That is sad, to me.

Some favorite quotes I always remember:

“Never try to go fast in a slow corner” (Kenny Roberts)

“It's hard to drive at the limit, but it's harder to know where the limits are”. (Stirling Moss)

“It is better to go into a corner slow and come out fast, than to go in fast and come out dead” (Stirling Moss)

“ In my sport, the quick are too often listed among the dead” (Jackie Stewart)


But yes, the guy was a turkey for not waving an obviously faster rider past.

Best,
DeVern

"Go fast in the fast and slow in the slow"

Motorcycle racing instructor at Mosport back in the day.

GTRider said:

Some favorite quotes I always remember:

“Never try to go fast in a slow corner” (Kenny Roberts)

“It's hard to drive at the limit, but it's harder to know where the limits are”. (Stirling Moss)

“It is better to go into a corner slow and come out fast, than to go in fast and come out dead” (Stirling Moss)

“ In my sport, the quick are too often listed among the dead” (Jackie Stewart)


But yes, the guy was a turkey for not waving an obviously faster rider past.

Best,
DeVern

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I recall reading an interview of Robert’s that was done just after qualifying at a race; he had won the pole. He commented about how he was approaching a particularly difficult low speed corner on the track and said something similar to the quote above. The writer added a note that Robert’s apex speed on that corner was the fastest of all riders. Speed is relevant and the “Turkey” may have thought he was pushing hard in those corners.

"Always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear," Motorcycle Roadcraft, the Police Rider's Handbook. I thought the GS rider did fine, although he did violate that principle on a few curves. Violating that principle routinely is not an indication of skill.

Harry

That type of speed entering the corners is fine for someone who is riding in his comfort level, but he needs to check those mirrors as he prepares to slow down. There is a possibility he knew about being followed, as he was overtaken once. As soon as that rider passed him, natural instincts should have made him check the mirrors to see what else is behind him. Yeah, he knew.

You made Grace Under Pressure work for you. Kudos!

WWeldin said:

That type of speed entering the corners is fine for someone who is riding in his comfort level, but he needs to check those mirrors as he prepares to slow down. There is a possibility he knew about being followed, as he was overtaken once. As soon as that rider passed him, natural instincts should have made him check the mirrors to see what else is behind him. Yeah, he knew.

You made Grace Under Pressure work for you. Kudos!

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There is a point of comfort or discomfort where an inexperienced rider is concentrating so hard on the task at hand that he or she can lose situational awareness. Concentrating on entry speed, entry line, apex, exit line, may well preclude paying attention to the bike(s) behind. While it may seem to be a bit of an apples/oranges point, the several times I took Reg or Jason Pridmore's CLASS or STAR on-track schools we were required to remove or cover our mirrors because we were supposed to worry about where we were going and what we were doing, and not about who was behind us.

I think we can probably make some *assumptions* about the GS rider. And yes, to restate the obvious, we all started somewhere. Fair enough.

But .... .. .. This rider isn't the only one who does this. Riders of many skill levels seem to be clueless and do this. I would bet that all of you who have responded to this have had the exact same thing happen..... many times.

I don't know about you, but when a when quicker rider (or group) come up behind me, I make it easy for them to move on past and continue on their way, often waving them by to let them know. I don't feel pressure to speed up to keep them behind, and my ego is just fine letting those folks on by. But let's face it, there are riders out there that play by a different code. And, if you talk to these riders afterwards, most times you can tell they have an ego problem.. I have heard "Where does it say I should let riders behind me by?" These are the same riders who on another day, when they run up on a rolling chicane, will be complaining loudly about the rider who held them up. Or "I saw your lights behind me, they are really bright and they distracted me!" EDIT: Thereby acknowledging they knew you came up behind them, they noticed you, and then proceeded to keep you behind them.


It seems to me that recently, this rolling roadblock scenario seems to be more common. And this guy did this to each person in our group - made them earn each and every pass. This dude was a tool, and dare I say, a menace.

Do you pass these guys? Do you allow quicker riders to go by unchallenged, or do you make earn it?

Agreed, Turkey for making every person work to get around him. When I'm in my cage if a bike comes up on me wanting to go faster I pull over to let them by. I greatly appreciate every cager that does it for me and I always give a wave of thanks. For that matter anything that comes up on me wanting to go faster I pull over and let them go by. I've been lucky my 2 runs down the Dragon were early and I had the road to myself other than following my host the 2nd time. He was on an R1100S and I quickly noticed he never used his brakes which mage it obvious just how well he knew that road.

Always let the faster vehicle go ahead. They make a great radar detector. As long as they will keep the pace up and I don't have to now pass them.

indycar said:

Do you allow quicker riders to go by unchallenged,

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When a faster rider catches us we try to make it as easy as possible for them to pass.

indycar said:

Do you pass these guys?

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Every situation is different. Sometimes we pass and sometimes we'll follow. If we decided to follow, we hang back so we don't make the rider nervous.

Two different times we came up on a slow rider and decided to not pass. Both times I noticed the rider was checking the mirrors way too much and both times they ran off the road on a curve.
They stayed upright and did not hit anything and were able to get back on the road without help.