Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Shift Pro- downside to using it a lot?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Cooperstown NY
    Posts
    568

    Shift Pro- downside to using it a lot?

    I haven't really used it much on my 2016 RT but I have a trip coming up and I'm still a bit stiff (sore if I'm honest) from CMC Arthroplasty on my clutch hand. I rode about 50 miles yesterday and the shift pro really helped. Not that I CAN'T shift regular but I'm really appreciating that feature for all day riding. So I'm wondering if there's a downside to using it frequently (primarily mechanical downside, but I'll listen to other comments) I don't use it for downshift to first (don't know why) and generally not 1st-2nd but using it the rest of the time really gives my hand a break- could it break anything else?

    Mods- I put this here and not in the wethead forum because I believe it applies to many models.

  2. #2
    I too have a 2016 RT with shift assist pro and use it as much as possible (more for efficiency than medical reasons). I usually clutch for second gear, but Iím getting good at that up shift also. So upshift 3-6 90% of the time. Downshift all the way to 1st or 2nd 100% of the time. About 71,000 miles no issues mechanically.
    R. Reece Mullins Ebony R1200RT (Gretchen)
    MOA # 143779
    MOA Charter Club #5 #364 #100
    BMW MOA President

  3. #3
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Big Sky Country
    Posts
    8,705
    I use it on my 17 GSA quite a bit. An argument could be made that using Shift Assist is easier on the mechanics of the transmission. I know that when I shift the traditional way I will often feel a bit of tic as the bike slips into gear. I have never sensed anything close to a grind or tic when using the assist.
    Kevin Huddy
    Silver City, Montana
    MOA# 24,790 Ambassador

  4. #4
    wanderer
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bridport Vermont
    Posts
    465
    I do not know the precise (mechanical and electronic)throttle design details of Shift pro/ quick shift.

    Having said that I think it is more stressful, more wear prone than the old fashion, much slower, using the clutch.
    The rational is using the clutch completely unloads the transmission gear train from the road leaving the rotational inertia of the gears and engine seperate.
    Using the clutch softly, via slippage re synchs these to full engagement.

    Using the shift pro we are relying on the the switch on the shift lever to tell the computer to throttle back/or up to unload the gear train, to perfectly match speeds and to the extent that is effective force the constant mesh gear "dog" to move to the next gear. If that algorithm / blipping timing is off just a bit, this shifting occurs with some level of load on the mechanisms. Worth it if you are racing and want the fastest, shiffting possible.....at some compromise of transmission longevity.

    If some one knows the details of the design and can point out the flaw in this thinking, I would like to know.

    Yes I too some time use the quick shift when I'm in a sporty mode in the twisties
    Last edited by vtbob; 05-18-2021 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Cooperstown NY
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
    I do not know the precise (mechanical and electronic)throttle design details of Shift pro/ quick shift.

    Having said that I think it is more stressful, more wear prone than the old fashion, much slower, using the clutch.
    The rational is using the clutch completely unloads the transmission gear train from the road leaving the rotational inertia of the gears and engine seperate.
    Using the clutch softly, via slippage re synchs these to full engagement.

    Using the shift pro we are relying on the the switch on the shift lever to tell the computer to throttle back/or up to unload the gear train, to perfectly match speeds and to the extent that is effective force the constant mesh gear "dog" to move to the next gear. If that algorithm / blipping timing is off just a bit, this shifting occurs with some level of load on the mechanisms. Worth it if you are racing and want the fastest, shiffting possible.....at some compromise of transmission longevity.

    If some one knows the details of the design and can point out the flaw in this thinking, I would like to know.

    Yes I too some time use the quick shift when I'm in a sporty mode in the twisties

    What you say makes sense- but rangerreece's 70K is compelling! I do find that the two shift methods seem to respond to two attitudes. Shift pro likes a confident shift while manual shifting likes three distinct operations- let up gas, clutch, shift. The only time shift assist pro seemed clunky was when I was less than assertive in the shift or let up on gas while upshift or didn't let up on down shift.

  6. #6
    ohbeemer ramble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    250
    This do or don't method has crossed my mind too, and with any new bike, my clutching is off, that is the actual of lever pull necessary to shift. I tend to want to pull the lever all the way in and I don't think thats necessary, to find the real friction zone. The computer is most likely smarter than my aged reactions.

  7. #7
    Back in the Saddle mcmxcivrs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,213
    With my F850GSA, I use the shift assist most of the time. The times I find it to be less then stellar is under very light throttle conditions such as in slower traffic. I've gotten a sense for when it won't shift well and use the clutch on those occasions.

    For me however the biggest risk in using it is forgetting that my K1200GT doesn't have it when I switch over to ride it.
    Ed Miller, Calgary, AB
    2008 K1200GT, 2019 F850GSA

  8. #8
    John. jstrube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atwater, CA
    Posts
    1,197
    Not having my manual handy right now, but I remember reading that shift pro was recommended in the manual as being smoother in operation. It will not allow you to make the downshift, for instance at the wrong RPM. I use it almost 100%.
    John.
    Atwater, CA
    2015 R1200RT

  9. #9
    Registered User powwow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Posts
    651
    Add me to the frequent Shift Pro user on my 2015 RTW. Similar to Reece, I generally clutch the 1-2, then Shift Pro all the way up and all the way back down to 1. It's just so smooth, it becomes a habit for my shifting.
    Larry Gregerson; Bend, OR
    MOA #93031

  10. #10
    ohbeemer ramble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    250
    Quote Originally Posted by powwow View Post
    Add me to the frequent Shift Pro user on my 2015 RTW. Similar to Reece, I generally clutch the 1-2, then Shift Pro all the way up and all the way back down to 1. It's just so smooth, it becomes a habit for my shifting.
    ALRIGHT.... Another excuse to ride! More Practice, just like the excuse I used to when I was 16 to take out the 56 Chevy!

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    28
    I've been a pre-load shifter since early in my riding career: it's fast, smooth, and part of the ballet of motorcycle control; I really enjoy it.

    However, my new BMW quickly taught me that the pre-load needs to be very light or pro-shift will be triggered: which yields a less-than-smooth experience when combined with other parts of pre-load shifting like changing throttle or clutch lever position. Fortunately it didn't take too long to develop the muscle memory necessary not to unintentionally trigger the pro-shift when wanting to pre-load shift.

    For now I tend to intentionally use pro-shift for the use cases of brisker acceleration (e.g. freeway on-ramp) and relaxed deceleration (e.g. approaching an already red traffic light on trailing throttle) which seem to fall into the pro-shift wheelhouse/design parameters, but stick with my engrained technique otherwise.

    My thoughts on downside, having spent my career automating processes through software logic, are that pro-shift is likely fine when operated within its design parameters. We don't know exactly what those design parameters are: but it's probably safe to go with the assumption that up/down shifts that feel smooth aren't hard on the bike, while those that don't feel smooth (e.g. rolling off the throttle when pro-shift upshifting) may be harder on it.

  12. #12
    Left Coast Rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    4,239
    Its there to be used. You won't "hurt" anything. Carry on.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Cooperstown NY
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Its there to be used. You won't "hurt" anything. Carry on.
    Will do- leaving Tuesday!

  14. #14
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,130
    Personally, I use Shift Pro for 80%-90% of my downshifts, including fast, spirited riding and including 1st gear. For upshifts, I seem to use it only about 50% of the time, mostly during medium to brisk acceleration. That's just where I've gotten the most in-tune with the system, not a function of the system itself.

    With the slipper clutch, computerized throttle manipulation, etc., as others have said, I do not think you are putting any undue strain on the system by using that feature, in fact, I think you are more likely reducing strain.

    I'm old enough to have started driving without synchronized transmissions (1st gear). The only way to get the vehicle from 2nd to 1st while moving was to adjust your throttle to have the input shaft speed match the speed of 1st gear, or come to a stop and do it.

    All using a clutch (without rev-matching) does is shift the load on the gears to the Syncro rings, it does not remove the wear and tear, it simply switches that wear from the gears to the synchros, and they are designed to not be overly sensitive to that. Rev-matching will reduce wear on the synchros, and that is what Shift Pro does if the rider doesn't do it themselves manually.

    I've driven well over 1,000,000 miles and often not used the clutch for up-shifts (and occasionally not used it for down-shifts when there was a broken clutch cable, pressure-plate, etc.), on none Shift Pro bikes, cars, trucks, and tractors. Wear and reliability issues come from a mismatch in speeds between the input shaft and the gear being selected. This applies to the gear being deselected as well if there is a load on the system (acceleration or deceleration). Without synchros, it is immediate and very apparent, with synchros it is significantly mitigated and almost but by no means completely eliminated. Synchromesh rings should be thought of as sacrificial components that are designed to have a typical lifespan (even without rev-matching) close to the rest of the transmission.

    My reading of things and experience with the Shift Pro leads me to believe, not know but believe, that the "proper" use of Shift Pro will be less wearing on the overall system than my use unless I am paying close attention to things. Remember, synchros mitigate and bear the burden of the negative effects of mismatched speeds, they do not eliminate them. Shift Pro is an additional step in that direction that has a reasonable amount of computer logic built into it and is better than I am (most of the time at least). YMMV
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS
    Current: 2019 R1250RT/'06 Ducati ST3s/'06 Vespa GTS 250ie/'91 R100GS/'86 R80RT/'83 R100RS/'76 R90/6/'75 R90S/'73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT/'04 R1150RT/'81 Honda GL1100/'77 Suzuki GS750/'73 Norton 850 Commando

  15. #15
    Registered User powwow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    Personally, I use Shift Pro for 80%-90% of my downshifts, including fast, spirited riding and including 1st gear. For upshifts, I seem to use it only about 50% of the time, mostly during medium to brisk acceleration. That's just where I've gotten the most in-tune with the system, not a function of the system itself.

    With the slipper clutch, computerized throttle manipulation, etc., as others have said, I do not think you are putting any undue strain on the system by using that feature, in fact, I think you are more likely reducing strain.

    I'm old enough to have started driving without synchronized transmissions (1st gear). The only way to get the vehicle from 2nd to 1st while moving was to adjust your throttle to have the input shaft speed match the speed of 1st gear, or come to a stop and do it.

    All using a clutch (without rev-matching) does is shift the load on the gears to the Syncro rings, it does not remove the wear and tear, it simply switches that wear from the gears to the synchros, and they are designed to not be overly sensitive to that. Rev-matching will reduce wear on the synchros, and that is what Shift Pro does if the rider doesn't do it themselves manually.

    I've driven well over 1,000,000 miles and often not used the clutch for up-shifts (and occasionally not used it for down-shifts when there was a broken clutch cable, pressure-plate, etc.), on none Shift Pro bikes, cars, trucks, and tractors. Wear and reliability issues come from a mismatch in speeds between the input shaft and the gear being selected. This applies to the gear being deselected as well if there is a load on the system (acceleration or deceleration). Without synchros, it is immediate and very apparent, with synchros it is significantly mitigated and almost but by no means completely eliminated. Synchromesh rings should be thought of as sacrificial components that are designed to have a typical lifespan (even without rev-matching) close to the rest of the transmission.

    My reading of things and experience with the Shift Pro leads me to believe, not know but believe, that the "proper" use of Shift Pro will be less wearing on the overall system than my use unless I am paying close attention to things. Remember, synchros mitigate and bear the burden of the negative effects of mismatched speeds, they do not eliminate them. Shift Pro is an additional step in that direction that has a reasonable amount of computer logic built into it and is better than I am (most of the time at least). YMMV
    You forgot double clutching on the downshifts for those old non-synchronized transmissions. I'm sure there aren't a lot of folks left in the world that would even have any idea what double clutching is.
    Larry Gregerson; Bend, OR
    MOA #93031

Similar Threads

  1. Shift Lever Adjust with Shift Assist - How?
    By BeemerMike in forum Wedge K-bikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-12-2018, 03:10 PM
  2. The Downside to Odyssey Batteries
    By jconway607 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 06-01-2016, 09:49 PM
  3. Any Downside to 1200RT low suspension option?
    By Bunker in forum Hexheads/Camheads
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-16-2013, 12:37 AM
  4. Sticky shift lever. Shift lever pivot seized
    By kim_cohan in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-26-2010, 02:29 PM
  5. Downside of removing muffler?
    By 117257 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 02-02-2006, 09:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •