after 10 yrs....disappointment

[QUOTE=GlobalRider;190181]Funny how the terms "more reliable" and "maintenance free" are being confused.

Points ignition isn't any more unreliable than electronic ignition; they're more maintenance intensive, and thats all. And when I'm in the middle of Iceland, I'd sooner have points, gravity feed fuel, etc. thank you.

And progress is supposed to benefit me in the way of something...right. So what am I getting in my oilhead that I'm not in my airhead. More MPGs? Not...you just have to know how to tune airheads. More reliablility? [B][COLOR="Red"]Neither of them has left me stranded since I first bought a BMW in 1991[/COLOR][/B].[/QUOTE]

That is the crux of it. For the large majority of us, the R1200 has not left us stranded either. So, is the added technology a problem? Depends on if you have had issues with it.

For me, the issues I have had with my R1200GS were all pure mechanical, and had nothing to do with new technology.

Jim :brow

[QUOTE=flash412;190183]Inquiring minds wanna know.[/quote]
It would be my pleasure.

[quote]Uh... how come you hafta remove the head to determine the timing? Wouldn't a dial indicator down the plug hole be a whole lot easier? Or, in the event that itsa flathead with the sparkie on the side (I dunno the R52), wouldn't a DEGREE WHEEL and some graph paper tell you exactly the same thing?[/quote]

The R52 is, in fact, a flat head. I actually have a tool that screws into the (18mm) plug hole for a dial indicator, but alas, the plunger isn't long enough.

Here's a picture of the front of the motor. Where are you going to mount that degree wheel? The camshaft gear isn't threaded on the inside. Also, when the motor is in the frame, there's very little clearance with the forks.

[img]http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2005/r52work/slides/P5090851.JPG[/img]


Anyway, the owners manual calls out for pulling the head and measuring the travel.

It also says you can remove the carb and look through the air intake port on the back of the bell housing, at the back of the flywheel to see the timing marks there, but for some reason, my flywheel isn't marked. (The round hole at the top of the bell housing is the air intake port.)

[img]http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2005/r52work/slides/P5090861.JPG[/img]


[quote]And even if you hadda pull the head ONCE, wouldn't putting a MARK somewhere and using a degree wheel make it a LOT easier to time than pulling the head when the points are worn and the timing needs to be adjusted in the future? [/quote]

It would indeed. That's why I took this opportunity to paint a witness mark onto the air intake under the right cylinder and, after measuring the OT and VZ points according to the owner's manual, transfering them to the front of the flywheel. Here's a picture of the air intake window (among other things); it's the opening in the front of the bell housing:

[img]http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2005/r52work/slides/P5080845.JPG[/img]

[quote]While we're talking about old bike timing, what's the difference between 12mm before TDC on [i]compression[/i] and on [i]overlap[/i] when the ignition is wasted spark? (Or even if it is NOT a wasted spark, on a twin with a 180?? crank?) Seems to me that in any case, it doesn't matter which head you pull or which stroke the cam is on when you set the timing. What am I missing? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

It's not a wasted spark. The Bosch D2A and D2B magdynos don't put out enough juice to fire both plugs. Where the plug wires mount onto either side of the unit, inside, there's a wheel with a 6mm long brass strip on it, which acts as a distributor. The magneto is geared, via an idler gear, from the camshaft, so it runs at half crank speed. So, when you put it together, you have to have the brass strip on the side that's under compression.

[img]http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2004/r52/smeyer/MagInn_med.JPG[/img]

:stick I'm keeping my K
Excelent information thanks :clap

Michael Rich
VE3CEH
1990 K75 TS
ATI 201

[QUOTE=JimVonBaden1;190213]For me, the issues I have had with my R1200GS were all pure mechanical, and had nothing to do with new technology.

Jim :brow[/QUOTE]

Purely mechanical issues? Thats rare. What went other than maybe that rear drive.

I'd sooner drop the high tech because when it does quit, and everything "more complicated than it has to be" does, then you're left standing there with your cell phone calling a flat bed...provided you have cell phone coverage.

Also, the reason that "neither of them left me stranded" has more to do with preventative maintenance than with inherent reliability.

[QUOTE=mrich12000;190242]:stick I'm keeping my K[/QUOTE]

Why not have both? :)

[img]http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2006/r52/slides/downshift.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=DarrylRi;190232]It would be my pleasure... [motorhead photos and 'splenations deleted][/QUOTE]BRAVO! Thank you Darryl. That tour of the R52 innards and inner workings was GREAT. Clearly one or two improvements have been made in the flat twin design over the years. (Though it took them roughly seventy years to perfect the exploding differential.)

[i]"REAL BMW's have pressed frames."[/i] - Some guy at a rally in the early 1950's :D

[QUOTE=flash412;190275]Clearly one or two improvements have been made in the flat twin design over the years. (Though it took them roughly seventy years to perfect the exploding differential.)[/QUOTE]

Exploding differential? Actually a rear drive unit and they've only recently started to "explode" or fail...ever since they went to the single sided swingarm about 20 years ago.

I don't remember reading about R75/5 (or any others with a full swingarm) rear drives failing.

[QUOTE=flash412;190275]BRAVO! Thank you Darryl. That tour of the R52 innards and inner workings was GREAT. Clearly one or two improvements have been made in the flat twin design over the years.[/quote]

The one thing about the 20s and early 30s bikes that strikes me as being really weird is the air "filtration" system. As you've seen above, it takes in air from just under and behind the right cylinder. This is good because it's preheated, and also, between the footboard and the cylinder, it's fairly protected from mud and gravel. :eek

Then the air travels around the whirling flywheel and clutch to get to the hole at the top of the bell housing. This is supposed to help prevent dust from getting into the engine.

Finally, there's a short pipe that heads backwards to the carb intake. The carb throat makes a 180 degree turn to start the air moving forward again. This is clearly not based on the modern idea of a ram air pressurized air box!

The carb has 2 slides in series -- there are two thumblevers up on the handlebars to control each one -- the first in line controls how much air gets through and the second covers the fuel jet and controls (if I can be liberal with that word) how much fuel dribbles into the manifold. (There's no needle.)

After all that filtering stuff, there's an idle air screw on the manifold side of the carb that lets "unfiltered" air in.

After all that, fuel injection seems simpler.

[quote](Though it took them roughly seventy years to perfect the exploding differential.)[/quote]

The only differentials on BMW bikes were on the R75M in WWII. But they had gearboxes that would lock up.

[quote][i]"REAL BMW's have pressed frames."[/i] - Some guy at a rally in the early 1950's :D[/QUOTE]

They were rugged -- you should see what the Polish farmers did to mine. Better yet, read about someone else's purchase of [url=http://histor.ws/bestr12/index.htm]The Best R12 in the World[/url].

But it's a modern design, one of the first "perimiter frames" in motorcycling!

[QUOTE=GlobalRider;190276]
I don't remember reading about R75/5 (or any others with a full swingarm) rear drives failing.[/QUOTE]

I have an $1100 truck rental bill from UHaul thanks to a failed /5 final drive coupling.

[QUOTE=jdiaz;190298]I have an $1100 truck rental bill from UHaul thanks to a failed /5 final drive coupling.[/QUOTE]

Platinum Club member?

Easy :german

[QUOTE=jdiaz;190298]I have an $1100 truck rental bill from UHaul thanks to a failed /5 final drive coupling.[/QUOTE]

Coupling? The splines to the wheel or the driveshaft joint? In either case, nowhere near the numbers for Paralever driveshafts and rear drive units.

[QUOTE=DanGreene;189798]:banghead Well, after 10 years of happy BMW riding I have been very disappointed. I am looking for any suggestions from those familiar with the new CanBus and the automatic ignition disabling system where the ignition recognizes the coded key.[/QUOTE]

so what's the status of your bike? :lurk

[QUOTE=GlobalRider;190379]Coupling? The splines to the wheel or the driveshaft joint? In either case, nowhere near the numbers for Paralever driveshafts and rear drive units.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes the coupling splined cup came loose from the driveshaft...at the input to the final drive. Rare and usually a devil to remove if you wanted it off .

[QUOTE=kitze2;190026]Try fixing your TV, cell phone or even your toaster oven! I work on commercial boats and the new engines from Cat. have four computers on the motor and two more in the pilot house. Each motor! Are they harder to work on? Not at all. They're still an internal combustion motor. Are the electronics a mystery to most? You bet. But they burn less fuel, make more power and since they run whithin the ideal design conditions are much, much more reliable. And a tech with the right equipment and training can fix them 100 times faster than the old systems.
If you want ABS and traction control and electronic suspension and trip computers and clocks that actually tell time you just have to take the risk (actually a very, very tiny one at worst) with the new electronics. Anyone remember points? How about magnetos? Or 6 volt charging (if you can really call 'em that) systems. I wouldn't go back for anything. Of course I still reset my trip odo at every fill up. Old habits do die hard![/QUOTE]

Well put, CAN systems have been in use for well over 10 years in the heavy duty truck market. Most, if not all, are drive by wire, engines and transmissions have no mechanical linkages of any kind. Just think someday the throttle cable will go away.
Nothing to be afraid of, it just takes time to adjust to the new technology.:clap

Howdy All-

This topic is something I know something about from work as my sister company makes the telemetrics and infotainment systems for the BMW cars and is one of the stakeholders in MOST. The cars use the MOST bus. The MOST bus is also not a proprietary standard but one that is licensed to some degree ([url]http://www.mostcooperation.com/[/url])

The CAN bus is not a proprietary format to BMW it is actually an ISO standard. It is simply a Controller Area Network ([url]http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html[/url]) there are standards. Now how the data is carried and packetized can be proprietary but with a little work it can be decoded.

I can explain why this is a good thing to some degree and why it is a bad thing. But there are plusses and minuses to everything. What is interesting to me is that since I am more of a bit-head then a self-wrencher, I prefer being able to plug into a system to diagnosis. However I also understand why people would prefer to have it more analog in the interface.

Basically think of it as if it is a phone system on your bike. We trust that collection of wires and routing and data transmission every day.