• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Bringing my R60/5 back to life.

agent9

New member
Hello, I am a long time MOA reader, but this is my first post.

So the back story.

I purchased my R60/5 about 6 years ago from a couple women in Pasadena. I have wanted a toaster since I was 12, and I love this bike as much now as when I was 12. I have always done all the maintenance on the bike myself. I am no mechanic, but I am mechanically inclined, and always prefer to do a job myself if I can. I did all the regular maintenance, but the clutch was always in need of a replacement, since the day I purchased it. The bike has around 45k miles on it.

r60.jpg


4 years ago I was in a somewhat serious accident on the bike, when I lost control around a corner at night on an unfamiliar street in Los Angeles. My right header ran into a pole, throwing both my legs into the carb area.

(this was the scene on a later day, my accident was at night)
accidentScene.jpg


amb2.jpg


Here is my poor girl:
r60post.jpg


but, she did fare better then myself:
xray1.jpg


I ended up with a pretty serious break of my right leg, as you can see in the picture, and minor fracture of my left tibia (so, it was a wheel chair for me for a couple months). I am fine now, everything healed up nicely.

While the bike looked sad and miserable in the above picture, she actually was alright. I replaced both fenders, the valve covers (with scratched up ones I already had, need to pick up some pretty ones at some point), and the pipes. I still need to track down a rear tail light assembly, but over all she was not in the worse of shape.

So after that I did something I swore I would never do. I let her sit. I started her twice in the last 4 years, once to load her into a moving truck to drag her to SF, and once more when I started feeling really guilty about a year and a half ago.

In my defense, I had a lot going on over the past 4 years, and it always gave me a good reason to not get her back into tip top shape. Insurance lapsed, and registration was suspended, then I moved, and my first place in SF only had parking, no garage, etc, etc, etc. In all honesty I think I was a little afraid to get back on my horse.

But I feel ready now, and I have a great garage, and really really really miss her.

here she is about a week ago:
IMG_1136.JPG


I charged up the battery and topped off the oil. The battery did not have enough juice to power the starter, so I kicked her for a while, and with the aid of some starting fluid she would turn over and sputter, then die. I think this is a good sign. Next I replaced the gas with new fuel, and swapped out the plugs. Same effect, just some sputter here and there then she died. I knew going there was a very high likelihood I would need to clean and rebuild the carburators.

IMG_1142.JPG


here is a picture of what may be one of the many reasons it was not able to fully start:

IMG_1143.JPG


I broke them both down, o-rings were shot, there was a lot of varnish build up in every hole etc. I blasted everything with carb cleaner and worked them with a tooth brush, then gave each side a 1 hour bath in chem dip, washed everything with water after.

IMG_1144.JPG


and put them back together with the old gaskets / orings / etc.

IMG_1151.JPG


Unfortunately the local BMW motorcycle shop does not have many parts in stock for the Bing type 53s, so I am going to have to track down the rebuild kits next week. I am hoping bavarian cycle works here in SF has rebuild kits, but I think it might be a long shot. I also sent Beemer shop in scotts valley an email. If I get no luck from either of them I guess I will be ordering the full kit from Bing (who I called twice last week and never got an answer) or Huck's.

Next I started draining all the fluids, starting with the final drive:

IMG_1164.JPG


WOW. I really hope this is not a sign of things to come. The final drive fluid was thick, and full of sludge. This final drive was actually installed not long before my accident, so I am hoping there was just some nastiness in there already, and that is not a sign of what I am going to find with the rest of the fluids.

What is the proper process to flush this thing out? Should I just fill it with gear oil, then drain again and replace? Is there something safe to put in there to eat all this away?

Luckily the drive shaft fluid was clear as can be:
IMG_1154.JPG


Transmission fluid was also very clean:
IMG_1155.JPG


although here was a good bit of small metal flecks around the drain plug magnet (the streak next to it almost looks like metallic paint)

IMG_1156.JPG


Motor oil looked like chocolate syrup, but my valves were off prior to the accident, and I remember it fouling plugs and oil fairly quickly (I hope it is just valves)

IMG_1158.JPG


The drain plug for the engine oil was free and clear of any metals
IMG_1157.JPG


Yesterday afternoon I left her draining, I figure a good 24 hours of dripping out will not hurt anything:

IMG_1160.JPG


I have also replaced the air filter, and plugs. I removed the oil filter, and have a replacement. and new valve cover gaskets, and oil pan gasket (I want to remove the oil pan and inspect / clean a bit).

I picked up a new battery as well, and new fluids from BMW.

So hopefully after I get new gaskets / etc for the carbs I will be able to get her started. I was wondering if I should replace the floats too, I rebuilt both carbs about 5 years ago, but am thinking maybe I should just for good measure. Are there any other carb bits I should replace? And how should I set the carbs for a base setting to get her started? Hard to sync without her running.

Also do you guys suggest anything to clean out that gunk in the final drive?

Thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:
Hello, I am a long time MOA reader, but this is my first post.

Also do you guys suggest anything to clean out that gunk in the final drive?

Thanks in advance!

Fill it with varsol, turn, turn, turn, turn it, then drain, repeat till it comes out clean.
 
Varsol, awesome! Thank you.

88BmwJeff: Thanks! I have actually been here three years now, love it here. I tried to call bing a couple times last week, maybe I just need to keep trying.

Does anyone have any advice, or anywhere they can point me to the proper way to set the carbs initially after the rebuild?

Thanks.
 
When you call Bing, buy their handbook...very useful information. It provides initial settings for the carbs.

Synching the carbs requires:

- warming them up first on a 20-30 minute ride
- place a fan in front of the bike to avoid overheating
- adjust the idle mixture screw individually so that each cylinder runs at max speed. Turn CW until it stumbles; turn CCW until it stumbles...set in the middle
- idle speed should be set so that each cylinder runs on its own at the same RPM, somewhere probably 500-600. Methods for shorting the cylinders have been discussed numerous times as well as is on Snowbum's website:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/synchcarbs.htm

- Snowbum also discusses how to set the throttle cable tension in the above article.

(We'll apologize ahead of time for Snowbum's articles! Lot's of info; sometimes hard to dig it out).

That's the basics. If you know of other Airheads near you, having them provide some help on this would be the best if you're doing it the first time.
 
I have synced them before, and have a lot of practice with the weber idf40s on my car, so I am comfortable with getting them synced once the bike is running.

The manual is definitely in the plan.

Is there anything else not included in the rebuild kit I should be replacing?
 
Kurt makes a good suggestion to go ahead and purchase the Bing manual. It may help you put all of those parts back together. It's kinda hard over time to figure out just exactly where and how that little gizmo came apart.

For me, cleaning that trans and differential is the most important. Actually, I wish you could take them off the bike so you can turn them and move them around to get whatever solvent into all the nooks and crannies.........BUT YOU CANT......so.........back in the old days we did what you need to do with kerosene or diesel fuel........It applies now also.......Fill it up and turn it over and over and over...........Some might even say to ride it but that is overboard......

FLUSH.....do it again......perhaps 3 or 4 times........Then put in new el cheapo oil and ride it to get the whole think hot.....DRAIN IT.........NOW....new permanent.............

Proud that you are bringing this back to life......God bless.........Dennis
 
Thanks Jeff, joining socal airheads now.

I have found varsol seems to be nearly impossible to locate here in california. I did pick up some Gunk MF3 MotorFlush. Smells like a turpentine or petrol, which I found promising for some reason. I put an approximate 50/50 mix of hypoid oil and MotorFlush into the final drive, and spun the rear wheel for 5 minutes or so. I then drained it, and added the same mixture again and repeated. Seems to be flowing clean now. Once I get the bike running I plan on running it for a week or so then do an additive (perhaps more gunk motor flush) flush of the whole system, and replace all the fluids once again.

I have the carburetors back together, they always seem pretty easy to assembly as long as you do them one at a time. But a good manual is always a good idea. I was planning on grabbing that anyways.
 
full carb rebuild kit and manual from bing came in yesterday. Was able to get the carbs finished, also rebuilt the pet cocks, and got everything together.

IMG_1195.JPG


Tried to start it, and she just wasn't catching (I dont think there was enough fuel in the carbs yet). Little tiny bit of starter spray and it fired right up. Starts without a problem now. Really a huge relief. I expected it to smoke like the dickens, but there was next to none. I do see a little on the left pipe when I give it a good rev, but I am hoping this is just burn off.

Next is the points and valves. I know the vales are definitely off by quite a bit, and the push rods are not centered in the tubes, so I will be fixing all that up hopefully tomorrow, and give a shot at getting the carbs more balanced. Then I am moving on to the clutch before rebuilding the forks.

Is there a good guide to balancing the carburators using the shoring method?

I am going to order some new valve covers, try to track down a tail light assembly, and a complete new clutch. I would love to know if there is anything I am missing for the clutch, and if there is a favorite place to order from.

here is my parts list:
CLUTCH SPRING 21211250288
PRESSURE PLATE 21211251801
HD CLUTCH PLATE 21211236332
SPACER WASHER (x6) 21210070511
COMPRESSION RING 21211231666
COUNTERSUNK HEAD SCREW (x6) 21211231463
Oil Pump Cover Bolts (x4) 7119913464
Flywheel bolts (x5) 11220016759
(short) driveshaft bolts (x4) 26111230414
clutch carrier bolts (x6) 21211338680
clutch carrier bolt washers (x6) 21211242377

A&S is coming in right around $500 for all of this, would love to know if anyone has a suggestion on somewhere else.

I have already ordered and received all the tools, the rear main seal, and the oil pump seal from Northwoods Airheads.

If anyone has a /5 tail light assembly or valve covers please give me a shout.

Thanks.
 
Snowbum has an article on synching and shorting...if you feel up to reading through it:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/synchcarbs.htm

Is one of your tools something to block the crankshaft when you remove the flywheel? Plenty of cautions out there to be double sure that the crank doesn't move forward when the flywheel is off...it'll make this job a whole lot tougher if you let it move... :banghead
 
Yes, I have the crankshaft blocking thinggy, this seems like a common problem of not doing this. Am I correct that you block the crankshaft from inside the front cover (where the diode board / points are located). As I understand it you place this on the hex head bolt located in there then lightly reattach the front cover. I have a slight recollection that some people suggest also blocking the starter? or maybe it was the alternator? Is there anything to that?

Here is my little collection of tools:

IMG_1199.JPG


from left to right: rear main seal installer, rear main seal, flywheel holder, clutch adjustment tool (not totally sure what this is used for need to read the instructions that come with it), crankshaft blocking bolt, swing arm tool, clutch alignment tool (also not sure exactly how that works), clutch back out bolts, and finally the oil pump o-ring.

thanks again.
 
Yes, I have the crankshaft blocking thinggy, this seems like a common problem of not doing this. Am I correct that you block the crankshaft from inside the front cover (where the diode board / points are located). As I understand it you place this on the hex head bolt located in there then lightly reattach the front cover. I have a slight recollection that some people suggest also blocking the starter? or maybe it was the alternator? Is there anything to that?

Quite a nice collection of "tools" there! Yes, it's blocking the crankshaft which is what the alternator rides on the front of. The points are at the bottom and they run off the camshaft.

That plastic thingy goes in the front of the rotor retaining bolt and the cover is reattached and snugged against this plastic piece. Snowbum provides some dimensions of how far this needs to stick out. Just about anything can be used. Heck, you could take a 2x4 and rest it against the rotor bolt and tie each end back to the jugs...that would keep the crank from moving, too.
 
Yay progress. I ordered all my clutch parts from BMW MC SF, and they came in about 3 days, which was great. Started tearing the bike down. This is definitely deeper then I have gone into the bike then ever before (I have replaced the starter, etc, but never had the swing arm etc off). As usual it was easy and logical, I am always impressed with how these bikes were engineered.

here is the new clutch

image%2520%252811%2529.jpeg


I had a small issue getting the drive shaft bolts off. I did not have the factory box wrench, and the two 10mm 12 point wrenches did not have enough clearance to get in there. I ended up grinding one down a bit, and it got in there without issue, and was really easy to remove once I can get a grip on it.

image.jpeg

(I love how these bikes look stripped down)

The old bolts are the short type, the new ones I got from BMW are the longer ones, and I believe these medieval looking washers go along with them....am I correct? will I have any issues with these longer bolts along with the locking washers?

image%2520%25281%2529.jpeg


After that I removed the clutch linkage, and neutral indicator wire. The transmission lifted right out, I left the kick starter and leaver attached, even with the carbs still on the bike there was plenty of clearance to get it out of there.

Its pretty gross, going to be nice to have the opportunity to clean it really well.

image%2520%25289%2529.jpeg


here is just a cool picture with the clutch assembly still in there:

image%2520%252810%2529.jpeg


I removed three of the bolts and placed the back out bolts in their place

image%2520%25282%2529.jpeg


I did notice that the clutch bolts were the hex-head which I believe means that the clutch was replaced at some time in the past, but the compression ring is still the old style. The bike has 45k miles on it, so I am a bit surprised the clutch has ever been replaced. All that said it was a relief that the bolt had been replaced, I was not looking forward to having use an impact driver to get the old flat heads out.

Here is the clutch removed. As you can see there is a TON of gunk in there. I assume both the rear main seal and the oil pump ring are leaking.

image%2520%25284%2529.jpeg


here is the old and new

image%2520%25283%2529.jpeg


The old clutch plate is measuring about .15" compared, the new one is measuring about .25"

here is clutch housing with the flywheel remove (I had ro really coax out the fly wheel, I think all the gunk was holding it in place).

image%2520%25285%2529.jpeg


So after about 2 hours of blasting and scrubbing (took two cans of brake cleaner and a good chunk of a can of engine degreaser to get out all the gunk, and its still not 100%).

image%2520%25286%2529.jpeg


much better. I did notice some scoring on the case, its the really shinny are in this photo:

image%2520%25287%2529.jpeg


it is grooved and really smooth, but it was covered with gunk, so if there was some rubbing, I do not think it was with the current clutch parts in there. Is this just part of the manufacturing process?

So my biggest two questions right now are:
1) will the longer drive shaft bolts with the lock washers work well / better?
2) what kind of torque does everything need when putting it back together? My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.
3) Should I take any concern with the amount of gunk in the clutch housing? Or should I assume this was in deed caused by either the oil pump or rear main seal, both of which I am replacing.

thanks again,
Ezra
 
1) will the longer drive shaft bolts with the lock washers work well / better?

You really should get the right bolts, that is the shorter ones. BMW went away from the long bolts that used split lock washers. The washer would break, thus releasing the tension on the bolts. Short bolts, clean and dry, with blue loctite is the way to go.

2) what kind of torque does everything need when putting it back together? My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.

What does your manual say? Snowbum has torques listed on his website.
 
I will double check snowbum's and Duane's sites. I know popular opinion sometimes drifts from the manual, but I suppose that would be a good starting point.

Can I re-use the ones I took out? I think I should order a new boot, so I may as well get the bolts at the same time.
 
My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.

You really need to stop guessing at this stuff... i.e. swing arm pivot pin (swing arm "bolts" ?) is only torqued to 7.5 ft.lbs, and they are pre-loaded to 15ft.lb. and then backed off to 7.5ft.lb. The 27mm nut that locks them is torqued to 72ft.ft.

This is one of the refs from the Resource links Kurt mentioned, it's a '78 spec sheet, but is good on the /5 http://forums.bmwmoa.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30217&d=1322327944

Here are the rest > http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=47142

and no, you can not (or should not) reuse the old drive shaft bolts... do so at your own peril.
 
and no, you can not (or should not) reuse the old drive shaft bolts... do so at your own peril.

In a full rebuild situation, taking your time, it really does make sense to get new bolts. But, as discussed on another recent thread, if the old bolts thread into the flange easily with the fingers, that would indicate they haven't stretched out of shape and could...emphasis with could...be reused.
 
Back
Top