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Cough Klunk Locked

pglaves

#13338
For health related reasons caused by way too much wildfire smoke, my F650 Dakar single was parked in a storage unit in Montana for just over two weeks. We took a trailer to retrieve the bikes. The F650 was a little hard to start and smelled flooded but did start, and ran fine. I rode it from the storage unit about 300 feet to where the trailer was parked for an easy level no-ramp loading. Almost to the trailer it coughed once, almost like a little backfire, with a slight clank. When I tried to restart it it wouldn't turn over. It acted like a weak battery which didn't surprise me at the time since I had to do a lot of cranking to get it to start the first time. We rolled it onto the trailer and hauled it home to Texas from Montana.

I put a charger on the battery overnight. Still clicking from the relay but no cranking. Suspecting a bad battery I used jumper cables attached to the battery in my Ford Explorer. Click click but no crank.

I removed and inspected and tested the starter. It was fine. I removed the spark plug so I wasn't fighting compression and tried to turn the engine by turning the rear wheel. It wouldn't turn. The wheel turns fine in neutral and if the clutch is pulled. Next I removed the countershaft sprocket cover and attempted to turn the countershaft using the appropriate 30mm socket and my longest 1/2" drive handle. In gear it won't turn more than to take up gear slack in either direction.

The engine is locked up tight in both directions.

When it died it had been running maybe one minute. It wasn't overheated or even revved much. I just was riding it towards and about 3 feet from the trailer at a speed and rpm suitable for riding it off the street and onto a level trailer.

I can offhand think of a few things that could break and prevent rotation in the normal direction - a valve head jammed between the piston and head for example - but am having trouble visualizing what might block it solidly in both directions.

I don't like this bike well enough to want to pull the engine for a teardown/rebuild, but if there is something that is known to cause such symptoms - failed pump gear or something - I would go in one side or the other for a look see.

Otherwise, I will have a carcass or boat anchor for sale or I'll part it out. But before I do that if anybody has had a similar failure, (or had a friend with one, or heard about one) with a good idea or two, I'm looking for wisdom.
 
Well Paul, since you don't seem to be getting any response to your post and I certainly have nothing to offer on the problem, I thought I'd at least raise your spirits. Be happy you are where you are. Up here the cough aspect of your dilemma would be much worse....

MTSmoke920122.png


MONTANA FIRES AND SMOKE 9/11/2012
 
Any chance you can take a look through the spark plug hole to see what you can see? Locked up in both directions sounds like maybe camchain broke and wrapped around the crank sprocket.
 
Well Paul, since you don't seem to be getting any response to your post and I certainly have nothing to offer on the problem, I thought I'd at least raise your spirits. Be happy you are where you are. Up here the cough aspect of your dilemma would be much worse....

MTSmoke920122.png


MONTANA FIRES AND SMOKE 9/11/2012

I know. We drove along wearing particle masks on part of this retrieval trip.
 
Not real obvious but it sounds like something has jammed a geared part.
Anything known to break and jam into a gear set or chain on these?

Glad we don't have to breath smoke around here. Last year we had what was for NC some pretty large fires but smoke issues were minimal- mostly just the smell in some locations. Got to be no fun if one has any history of asthma or breathing problems..

Understand the bike may not be of enough interest to tackle the fix but I'd be curious to know exactly what broke...
 
Understand the bike may not be of enough interest to tackle the fix but I'd be curious to know exactly what broke...

Me too. After I gain control of a few other mechanical issues such as a spline lube on my R1150R and a complete major service plus fork seals on Voni's F800S I may well go exploring in the F650 motor.

Meanwhile, we each have a K75 to ride too.
 
Also thinking about whether a broken or jumped chain could be wedged into something...

Glad my "to do" list is shorter than yours and only maintenance at the moment rather than repairs.
 
Is the starter direct or a chain drive

I have never even looked at a parts fiche for one of these bikes. Is it possible that something in the starter drive mechanism in the engine and separate from the starter motor has come loose. I had an old Honda SL 350 KO that dropped the starter chain and stuck that thing like the cylinders were full of JB weld.

If the starter stayed engaged while it was being ridden 300' and its got a chain and clutch type engaging mechanism its possible it let go and has jammed it up.
 
The locked in both directions is a stumper.

Maybe an issue with one of the two oil pump drive gears or the pump intermediate gear? If something jammed the oil pump gears under the left cover, the crank would be locked by the gear on the clutch basket. Maybe something jammed between the pump gears, or a "loose" gear -- the "clank" would be consistent with something getting jammed in that gear train and instantly arresting the crank movement.
 
I have been busy doing other projects. I have to keep the working bikes fully up to snuff before I tackle this project of unknown duration. I agree that it probably is gears jammed somewhere in the starter drive on the right or the pump on the left. Oh my, where to start.
 
Oh my, where to start.

Start by removing the starter. You say it matters not the state of the battery's charge, the starter will not crank. You could have a bad starter relay, or the starter is in the extended (start) position, and siezed. This would also sieze the engine.
 
Start by removing the starter. You say it matters not the state of the battery's charge, the starter will not crank. You could have a bad starter relay, or the starter is in the extended (start) position, and siezed. This would also sieze the engine.

Thanks. I have already removed and tested the starter. It is fine. This particular model has a constantly engaged starter with a one-way sprag clutch. It is possible gears in the mechanism that connects the starter through the sprag clutch to the crankshaft are jammed, but it isn't the starter unit itself.
 
Speaking of the valve head - do these use two-piece valves??? As in the old Harleys, where the pieces were welded together. Yes it is possible for the broken piece to lock it all up tight.

My '70 CH ate three valves heads - each in a separate occasion - and a friend's Shovel also dropped one but spit it out the exhaust port (we found it when the pipe was off).
I also had a CB350 with the chain problem (but that was also partly my fault).
 
Paul:
Any news on the 650? Not comfortable on the edge of the seat.

No, not really. I have started to guess that it is a cam chain locked up but don't really know that. It is in the shop, ready to take apart, but I keep procrastinating about whether I should go in the left side, the right side, or the top first.
 
Left side for sure

It would give you access to the water pump and other potential causes without having to rip the entire bike down to subframe and fasteners. From the looks of things from my armchair I would say it would tell you the most with the least amount of fuss and mess.
 
Paul:

In neutral. Clutch pulled in. Engine won't turn either direction. Either direction? It ran well until it stopped. Smoke. Ten days parked. Spark plug out. Starter out.

This is great! Better than Murder She Wrote. It's a real MYSTERY!

Since I just bought a G650GS I am really interested. Oh, is this a two cylinder? Does it have a zillion miles on it? And finally, why is it that you don't like this bike very much?

Still on the edge of my seat. Thanks. Don
 
I can relate to feelings toward the 650 single...The wife has an 05 GS and although she does not ride it very much..only has 12000 miles total, she absolutley loves the bike!..... It is the factory lowered model with ABS and it has proved to be totally reliable in all these past years...Just routine maintenance is all it has ever required.I do the work on it ,but it always takes extra effort to get in the mood...for this particular machine. My Triumph Bonneville or Kawasaki Versys take only a few minutes for oil changes etc. and I keep a stock of spare filters even... but for the BMW oil change.....Ughh...body panels plastic pieces.. turn signal..just weird stuff that makes me stand back and ask questions...I love my wife..bless her, but she just does not understand when I try to tell her it's time for a new bike!....Oh and I only buy 1 BMW oil filter when needed!....
 
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