Battery Charger

[kantuckid]

In the good old days we had flooded wet cell lead acid batteries and they all pretty much took a charge about the same. But technology now has different battery makers building batteries - wet cell, absorbed glass mat, gel cell - differently. And I actually believe that when a battery maker specifies a specific type of three-step or four-step charging curve as being optimal they know what they are saying.

Without verifying the numbers I suspect that most any 12 v charger can charge most any 12 v battery to somewhere between 80% and 90% (or maybe a little higher) of full charge. The penalty the owner pays for using less than the optimal charger for a specific battery is probably less than full charging and maybe reduced battery life.

What I pay the most attention to is the peak charging rate allowed - because charging a battery too slowly or to less than 100% does not kill a battery, but charging at too high a voltage, or at too high a current rate can overheat a battery, warp plates, cause internal shorting, and other ills. They are packing things a lot tighter in the cases now compared to hanging some flat lead plates in an acid bath.

I am not sure there are any good general rules because even batteries of the same type - AGM for example - differ in construction, internal clearances, etc.

The best thing to do is to see what the battery maker has to say, and to avoid charging at a higher voltage or current than they recommend. That might mean buying and owning a special charger. Or it might not. Less is more - more is not.

If you are the eternal cynic and believe that folks who make their livings building and selling batteries really just want to rip you off selling a battery charger they don't even make, well you could be right but I doubt it. It seems to me battery makers survive and thrive on the reputation of their batteries - not some Chinese battery charger. So when they advise a specific charging curve as supplied by a specific charger, I tend to believe them. We went 10 full rounds on this with BMW and Deltran, until Deltran finally agreed with BMW's and Exide's position about a special charging curve for their gel (not AGM) batteries.

As one that previously posted on the Forum about having bought a Die Hard float charger, now it seems timely to get this out there. I put that float charger on my T@B trailer RV to maintain the two series 27 deep cell , conventional wet acid batteries. It proceeded to boil them over rather than its intended duty. Rather than risk further damage I took back the charger and just need to warn against others depending on that charger for their bike battery.I was thinking of Die Hard as a brand name charger to be depended upon but evidently not!
I have been using a Battery Tender around ten years old(not the Plus model) to maintain my bikes battery in the winter , to include my Westco thats ~ 5 years old now.
I once tried the Wally World cheapo? float charger on my bass boat deep cycle battery and it was overcharging the battery .

 

[kantuckid]

Try that in the heat we have. Optima and Odyssey batteries all are replaced halfway through their warranties and OEM batteries last 11-13 months.

Not to say you are wrong about heat and battery life, but my son lived in Phoenix for 7 yrs of grad school and had 2 cars while there; a Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS and a Z3, 2.8, neither of which had a battery replaced at any time and they were always parked outside in the heat.
As a side note on battery life, I'll add that it is common to replace the battery on a late model wreck that I rebuild after they have sat in storage for a few months.Late model cars like to be spun over well.

 

[spartanbeemer]

This battery charging thread is very interesting. I was just wondering about one thing though. On our bikes, the alternator and voltage regulator decide the battery charging conditions. Does this mean that if we put in a battery that is of a different composition than the factory battery that we need to change the alternator and/or voltage regulator to accomodate the different battery?

 

[bikerfish1100]

This battery charging thread is very interesting. I was just wondering about one thing though. On our bikes, the alternator and voltage regulator decide the battery charging conditions. Does this mean that if we put in a battery that is of a different composition than the factory battery that we need to change the alternator and/or voltage regulator to accomodate the different battery?

no.

 

[globalrider]

On our bikes, the alternator and voltage regulator decide the battery charging conditions. Does this mean that if we put in a battery that is of a different composition than the factory battery that we need to change the alternator and/or voltage regulator to accomodate the different battery?

Ideally, a voltage regulator would have to be matched to the charging requirements of the battery. A proper charging algorithm does let one realize the full life of a battery. In my case, I have been getting 8 full years out of my seasonal motorcycle batteries and as much as 16 years out of a car battery (car was sold and heard battery is still cranking it over at nearly 20 years old).

Many years ago there was a lot of talk on the forums about the need for that special BMW battery charger. Not being one to be brain washed by corporate advertizing and talk on forums, I questioned the need for a special BMW battery charger, when BMW didn't even change the voltage regulators on the motorcycles.

 

[spartanbeemer]

Battery Chargers

Thanks Alex,
I was wondering if anyone else was thinking along those same lines. It does sound strange to me that the different type batteries would require different charging conditions and yet no changes would be made to the equipment that has the most effect on the life of the batteries, namely the motorcycle alternator and voltage regulator. I smell a little corporate greed.

 

[globalrider]

It does sound strange to me that the different type batteries would require different charging conditions and yet no changes would be made to the equipment that has the most effect on the life of the batteries, namely the motorcycle alternator and voltage regulator.

There is nothing strange about batteries needing different charging methods, thats chemistry! But not matching the charging requirements is a matter of companies thinking it is good enough, why bother.

In fact, a voltage regulator should accept temperature feedback from a probe within the battery to adjust end voltage if you wanted to do it right.

BTW, there is nothing high-tech about the alternator (the three phase part of it); a simple device producing AC.

On the airheads, the voltage regulator is a separate unit. Some aftermarket units had a trim pot on them do that they could be adjusted. The police bikes had a different unit as well to keep the battery charged during city use.

 

[pglaves]

This battery charging thread is very interesting. I was just wondering about one thing though. On our bikes, the alternator and voltage regulator decide the battery charging conditions. Does this mean that if we put in a battery that is of a different composition than the factory battery that we need to change the alternator and/or voltage regulator to accomodate the different battery?

No, but the charging system may only charge the battery to 90% or 95% of full charge. No big deal in regular use.

 

[globalrider]

No, but the charging system may only charge the battery to 90% or 95% of full charge. No big deal in regular use.

But it does shorten life over time.

 

[AZ-J]

But it does shorten life over time.

Maybe so, and maybe not, If the bike is used enough, not likely. If the bike is used as I use mine, absolutely.

 

[globalrider]

Maybe so, and maybe not, If the bike is used enough, not likely. If the bike is used as I use mine, absolutely.

Undercharging as well as overcharging does shorten battery life.

Even if the motorcycle is used on a daily basis, if the voltage regulator does not do what it has to for a particular battery, the battery will suffer.

 

[MotorradMike]

Automotive(bike) batteries take a beating. So does oil. That's why we change it. Nobody is complaining about changing oil, why are people worried about changing the battery?

My bike is looking a bit non-functional right now. I just looked her over to see if I could find something that would NEVER wear out.
The little screw covers on top of the forks look pretty solid. As long as I keep them torqued I think I'm safe.

 

[globalrider]

Nobody is complaining about changing oil, why are people worried about changing the battery?

We don't because we have been brain washed into believing that oil needs to be changed every 3000 miles.

A co-worker goes at least 20,000 kilometers (12,000 miles) between oil changes and thats in an expensive BMW coupe; you'd think he'd worry. In Europe, the recommended oil change interval for cars is 20,000 kilometers but then an oil change runs $300 or more.

Where does it say how often we should change a battery? Some people think 5 years is a long lived battery....that is about half way through its life in my books.

 

[AZ-J]

"5 years is a long lived battery" when you have a season with days on end over 100 and several over 115. Here, those who know, use Optima in the cars, and Odyssey in the bikes. Nothing lasts longer or works better, assisted or unassisted.

 

[globalrider]

"5 years is a long lived battery" when you have a season with days on end over 100 and several over 115.

Sure, but even up here they think 5 years is long lived. I say otherwise.

BTW, I'm aware of temperature effects on battery life. I'm working with Hawker Armasafe batteries daily.

 

[acejones]

WOW!
This has gotten as good as a tire or oil thread.

 

[AZ-J]

Sure, but even up here they think 5 years is long lived. I say otherwise.

BTW, I'm aware of temperature effects on battery life. I'm working with Hawker Armasafe batteries daily.

I live here just about 30 years. All of the newcomers think batteries take more of a beating in cold.

Then 1st summer, or second, just about late August to mid-September as the heat is abating, they get in their car/on their bike to come home from work/the mall/wherever and the car/bike goes "click" and it's all over. No, "wheeeeeeeeeeeeer, wheeeeer, wheer..."

Here, so many batteries fail in under 1 year on new cars it's not funny.

 

[globalrider]

Here, so many batteries fail in under 1 year on new cars it's not funny.

They're lasting well under a year in Afghanistan in the armoured vehicles where the inside temps are over 50??C...and these are batteries meant to take a higher level of punishment. Mind you, they are also abused in that they go through countless deep cycles during silent watches and who knows if they are taken back up to a full charge ASAP.

 

[MotorradMike]

So, what do we know?

Automotive(bike) batteries are:
Loaded really hard when we start the bike.
Charged without regard to requirements because the regulator doesn't know what kind it is.
Loaded lightly for weeks on end if we don't ride and have alarm, clock, etc. connected.
Charged without regard to temperature.

I'm not an Engineer but I do test some of the charging systems we send into space and I can tell you, they very carefully design those systems. Why, because we can not replace the batteries. If we could, they wouldn't waste time on it.

Even with the more difficult bikes, changing the battery is easier than changing a tire, cheaper too.

So don't sweat it unless you want to move to where Alex lives(OK. move twice, Europe, and Ottawa), do whatever he does and you might get 10 years out of your battery. Otherwise, be happy you don't live where AZ-J does and replace the battery when you have to, or get an airhead and bum start it.

No big deal.

 

[AZ-J]

So, what do we know?

Otherwise, be happy you don't live where AZ-J does and replace the battery when you have to, or get an airhead and bum start it.

No big deal.

I use a Battery Tender on my bike 100% in the garage. OE battery lasts 3 years. Then Odyssey and 5 or more.

In car, OE 1 year if lucky, 2 on some. Smart, get an Optima. Never had one less than 5 in a car.