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Why no smallish touring bikes?
- Thread starter poodad
- Start date
greenwald
New member
The 650 (actually 638 cc) Burgman by Suzuki comes in at 525 lbs., and a top speed of 110 MPH. Give it a close look - stylish, good weather protection and might just be the solution?!
It depends on what you're looking for. The Burgman 400 ...I should say the older Suzuki Burgman 400...has the largest underseat storage of any maxi-scooter in the world. Probably the weight will be less too. I'd recommend picking up one of the 2011s and up till they updated the scooter on Craigslist. They are pretty much indestructible, so if it looks good on first glance, it probably is. It'd be a good bike to start with, and if this turns out to be the passion of her life, she may want to move up to the BMW scooter or to a lightweight motorcycle.
The people who bought my second one, put it up for sale this past summer. The wife didn't ride it like they thought she would.
The reason I'm not recommending the current new version is two-fold.
The people who bought my second one, put it up for sale this past summer. The wife didn't ride it like they thought she would.
The reason I'm not recommending the current new version is two-fold.
- The new version has less of a fairing and less storage, making it less suitable for touring.
- There are a lot of used Burgman 400 scooters that can be found for dirt cheap prices.
- The 2007 model had only one low beam and one high beam. The 2008 and later models had two low beams and two high beams. 2011 was the first year to introduce ABS.
The 650 (actually 638 cc) Burgman by Suzuki comes in at 525 lbs., and a top speed of 110 MPH. Give it a close look - stylish, good weather protection and might just be the solution?!
That's the model I mentioned before with the CVT failures. It's a totally different bike than the 400cc model. The only thing that's the same is the shape and the name. Those CVT failures are expensive enough to make it a throw-away bike if it fails.
Chris
greenwald
New member
I like that Burgman idea. Besides, if you hold your head just right, and squint, the newer gray ones look like an RT.
Found this while looking for Burgmans on craigslist: A Burgman trike.
https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/mcd/6077980277.html
Found this while looking for Burgmans on craigslist: A Burgman trike.
https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/mcd/6077980277.html
All these suggestion are worth looking at. The V-Storm is a strong bike the only knock against it for your smallish wife might be that the older model carries it's weight high with the tank full of gas. Not a problem at speed but in the parking lot for a short rider it could be a handful. The newer ones have a smaller gas tank and that might not be an issue. I'd check that out.
Good luck with your search you'll find some great bikes in this market. The engine in the SV-650 and V-Storm is a great unit.
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Good luck with your search you'll find some great bikes in this market. The engine in the SV-650 and V-Storm is a great unit.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
lkchris
Active member
The current R1200RT is smaller than the previous version ... more female Police officers is my guess.
In any event, it's difficult to define "touring" as noted many times above, and as regards the RT it should be understood its first design criteria is to be a Police bike. Maybe BMW's sole touring bike is the K1600 ... it sure isn't anything without a driveshaft imho.
It seems likely the market expects small to be inexpensive and maybe what you need for touring really can't be inexpensive. Of course they used to be smaller as has been noted and perhaps there's a business opportunity in restoring the older models to like-new condition. They would still have to compete with bikes with satellite radio, traction control, electronically adjustable suspension, etc.
In any event, it's difficult to define "touring" as noted many times above, and as regards the RT it should be understood its first design criteria is to be a Police bike. Maybe BMW's sole touring bike is the K1600 ... it sure isn't anything without a driveshaft imho.
It seems likely the market expects small to be inexpensive and maybe what you need for touring really can't be inexpensive. Of course they used to be smaller as has been noted and perhaps there's a business opportunity in restoring the older models to like-new condition. They would still have to compete with bikes with satellite radio, traction control, electronically adjustable suspension, etc.
So what can BMW do to the F800GT to make it a better touring machine?
I have been saying this for many years. 2019 should be the change year for this model. I have ideals but what ideals are out there?
Yes I am back after a major house move!
IMHO, a bit more plastic and a real windshield to keep the wind and the rain off the rider. If it were going to appeal to women, there needs to be an option for a shorter seat.
Once you add some mods to the GT, it isn't far off. (Of course, this is just personal opinion. Obviously, others moved on thinking they couldn't get there.)
Mine has a Madstad windshield (clean air to sit behind), lowered foot pegs for old knees, bar risers for old backs, and some really nice 37L side cases and a 45L top box. That takes care of the ergonomics and storage.
Shortcomings? Not many. You could make the engine smoother. At the speeds I normally ride at, it already is pretty smooth. At higher speeds, I think the vibration will get worse, but hopefully still not enough to be an issue. Some people want cruise control. With the change to the engine management introduced in 2017, you can add a cruise control kit like they use already on the FJ-09 for just a couple hundred dollars. Not much at all. So even if BMW doesn't include it as an option, the third party market will take care of that.
The heat off the frame is an issue potentially. I doubt though that you could do much to alleviate it. I've seen posts saying other bikes like the VFR can get scorching hot sitting in traffic from the frame also. Never having ridden one, I can only go by what I read. Likewise, the boxer engines can put off a lot of heat. Richard230 did a review and said his boots fell apart from the heat. I noticed the RT seems to have a heat deflector in between the engine heads and toes for that purpose. The only bike I've ridden with no engine heat was my Suzuki Burgman 400. The engine was small, and hidden down under a lot of tupperware with no direct way to bring heat to the rider. About the only way I can see to eliminate the heat, is to get rid of the fairing. One of the things I like about the GT, is the fairing. It makes riding at higher speeds a lot less tiring.
I haven't done any "touring" yet. My riding has been a lot of commuting, punctuated by very long single day excursions. On all the other bikes, I'd get home tired and exhausted. Ready to take a shower and nap, and who cared what order I did it in. I noticed that with the GT, I'm not tired when I get home. Get a shower to take care of the sweat. But the desire to take that nap isn't a necessity. That says something about the GT that I think makes it better than you think just looking at it. It is so effortless in anything with corners that you don't expend a lot of energy. Then when you hit the straights, it still is pretty effortless. It eats away the miles without any fuss or bother. That adds up at the end of the day.
I went to the Coeur d'Alene BMW MOA Getaway last fall. I could've made it a 5-6 hour trip on I-90, but I chose to take the North Cascades Highway over the Cascades and then stay up in the forest areas up near the Canadian border. It made it a 10-11 hour trip at the minimum. I was glad to get to the motel, but only because the last portion had hit the Spokane rush hour traffic. It just wasn't fun. But was I tired? No. What is touring, except stringing a bunch of that together?
Chris
Mine has a Madstad windshield (clean air to sit behind), lowered foot pegs for old knees, bar risers for old backs, and some really nice 37L side cases and a 45L top box. That takes care of the ergonomics and storage.
Shortcomings? Not many. You could make the engine smoother. At the speeds I normally ride at, it already is pretty smooth. At higher speeds, I think the vibration will get worse, but hopefully still not enough to be an issue. Some people want cruise control. With the change to the engine management introduced in 2017, you can add a cruise control kit like they use already on the FJ-09 for just a couple hundred dollars. Not much at all. So even if BMW doesn't include it as an option, the third party market will take care of that.
The heat off the frame is an issue potentially. I doubt though that you could do much to alleviate it. I've seen posts saying other bikes like the VFR can get scorching hot sitting in traffic from the frame also. Never having ridden one, I can only go by what I read. Likewise, the boxer engines can put off a lot of heat. Richard230 did a review and said his boots fell apart from the heat. I noticed the RT seems to have a heat deflector in between the engine heads and toes for that purpose. The only bike I've ridden with no engine heat was my Suzuki Burgman 400. The engine was small, and hidden down under a lot of tupperware with no direct way to bring heat to the rider. About the only way I can see to eliminate the heat, is to get rid of the fairing. One of the things I like about the GT, is the fairing. It makes riding at higher speeds a lot less tiring.
I haven't done any "touring" yet. My riding has been a lot of commuting, punctuated by very long single day excursions. On all the other bikes, I'd get home tired and exhausted. Ready to take a shower and nap, and who cared what order I did it in. I noticed that with the GT, I'm not tired when I get home. Get a shower to take care of the sweat. But the desire to take that nap isn't a necessity. That says something about the GT that I think makes it better than you think just looking at it. It is so effortless in anything with corners that you don't expend a lot of energy. Then when you hit the straights, it still is pretty effortless. It eats away the miles without any fuss or bother. That adds up at the end of the day.
I went to the Coeur d'Alene BMW MOA Getaway last fall. I could've made it a 5-6 hour trip on I-90, but I chose to take the North Cascades Highway over the Cascades and then stay up in the forest areas up near the Canadian border. It made it a 10-11 hour trip at the minimum. I was glad to get to the motel, but only because the last portion had hit the Spokane rush hour traffic. It just wasn't fun. But was I tired? No. What is touring, except stringing a bunch of that together?
Chris
KenDittrick
Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197
I had a 650 VStrom for a couple of years and took some shortish trips with it (a couple of week to ten days up to 4000Km) and no problems with performance, comfort, carrying capacity or range. The ONLY complaint I had was side winds such as found in the eastern side of the Rockies it really could be a bear to handle (especially with a full tank of fuel and/or a rear TopBox. Other than that a nice, simple, capable and dependable machine.
A big advantage of a F700GS for a small rider may be the under seat gas tank. Fitted with a nice Madstad windscreen, bark busters to protect the hands from wind and rain, lower the suspension, get a custom seat and you've got a pretty good mid size touring bike.
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Pirsig with son on pillion, gear lashed to rear rack, 305cc. Most of us started on a 350. I hit the road in '81 on 600. The trick was always assembling the gear and then paring it down to the side cases and tank bag. Load lite and low. Take it easy on the machinery. And with the optimistic BMW speedometer we were always flying down the road at top speeds.
Back in 2010, I bought a new F800ST, replacing a Triumph Trophy 1200. The ST felt like a 250, compared to the Trophy. Low center of gravity, fairly lightweight, expandable panniers, decent ergos for my 5'8" frame. Toured all over the southern US on that bike. Only change I made to it was putting a CalSci windscreen on it and some GrabOn foam grip covers. I traveled on that bike from AL to GA to OK to IA to CA (many different trips). Never a problem. Up to 800 mile days. For me, only 2 downsides to it: smallish luggage for 2-up touring and a smallish gas tank (4 Gal). Traded it in 2015 for a new RTW. Wish the RTW was as light as the ST!
Rinty
New member
That's been my experience as well, with the 650's I've toured on, being a Versys, and a GS (Paris Dakar). Even on the high passes in the Rockies.
I would love to find a replacement for my K75S. I looked hard at the GT and even the ST, but couldn't quite make the jump. As above, there is just so much you have to invest in it to make it touring friendly. With the K75RT I felt that BMW was making a true touring bike - same size saddle bags (not the tiny ones found on some of the F bikes), big windscreen that was adjustable later on, fairing etc. I am more interested in gas mileage (and the possible savings) than curb weight of the bike.
I wish that BMW would make an 800 with most of the bells and whistles of the R1200RT - shaft drive, electronic windshield, decent saddlebags, integrated cruise control, and the like. As more dedicated riders begin to age, shaving off even 100lbs of weight, but retaining the luxury seems important (to me at least).
weschmann
Kawa Afterthought
I just wonder if the R 9 T Scrambler type set-up with a suspension upgrade would be just the right combination for a small tour bike? it certainly is the right weight and has plenty of power. With the right seat and windshield, and better suspension, I think it would be just about perfect for a small tour bike. If I had extra bucks to play around with, I would be tempted to give it a go at customizing one to see how well it would work out......
