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[alancoles]

...When I contacted NA as a customer I received a response that reminded me that the dealerships were independently owned and that the program was limited to participating dealers...

I would respectfully suggest that that response is slightly BMW NA b***s***. Yes, the dealers do have some autonomy, but believe me, they are BMW Dealers and BMW Group (and by extension it's sub-groups) has significant control over much of what they do and very significant influence over what they do regarding promotions, etc.

How much independence do these "independent" dealers have in choosing which models and at what quantities they purchase from BMW? How much independence in advertising BMW products in how the add is designed, delivered, and what is included/excluded.

To my way of thinking, there are what, 180~ BMW Motorrad Dealers in the US and Canada combined?

Perhaps we need to have all of them listed on one of the back pages of BMWON with those supporting BMWMOA identified by a "BMWMOA Supporter" logo or something like that (highlighted print, etc.). If we are faced with individual dealers electing to not participate in BMWMOA promotions than we should be identifying those that do support BMWMOA in BMWON and lets see what effect shining "the light of day" on them has. If dealers who choose not to support BMWMOA are allowed to remain relatively anonymous than their actions have very little consequences for them, however, if they are aware that they are being asked to support BMWMOA and that support will be acknowledged, and that their non-participation will be noted, than they'll be more inclined to assist.

Any organization that has twice as many BMW owners as BMW sold bikes within that area should have a significant voice with that manufacturer and it's dealer network. That voice should be a collaborative effort to work with both BMW Group and it's sub-companies as well as the their dealer-network. But again, it needs to be and be seen to be a two-way street. To my way of thinking this should be one of BMWMOA's core pillars of it's reasons for existing.

 

[sagerat]

Should I be drinking a Molson or a Labatt's as I read this thread?

 

[squiffynimrod]

Should I be drinking a Molson or a Labatt's as I read this thread?

Neither, if you are planning on drinking a beer.

 

[BC1100S]

Neither, if you are planning on drinking a beer.

Hilarious.

 

[36654]

Any organization that has twice as many BMW owners as BMW sold bikes within that area should have a significant voice with that manufacturer and it's dealer network. That voice should be a collaborative effort to work with both BMW Group and it's sub-companies as well as the their dealer-network. But again, it needs to be and be seen to be a two-way street. To my way of thinking this should be one of BMWMOA's core pillars of it's reasons for existing.

You would think that would be the case. But, sadly, it isn't.

First of all, look at us MOA members as a group. Mostly retirees that can afford our toys. Now, look at a BMW Car or MC ad. See any of us in those ads? I don't.

We're here, we're the customer, but not really the customer BMW wants or envisions driving/riding their product. In short, BMW AG / NA or Canada will never cater to us (in my opinion). The dealers will do what dealers always do.....whatever they think is best as individuals.

As such, I don't see much benefit in making better manufacturer / dealer relations an objective of the MOA. It will always be a one-sided pursuit by us (the undesirable customer) to earn their love.

However, that doesn't mean that when the MOA announces a "benefit" that it should be immediately questioned as to whether or not that benefit applies to specific members. Telling you you'll get a free quart of oil.........should announced as you "may" get a free quart of oil at participating "US" dealers. Similarly with the neck do-hickey. That is something BMWMOA can control and should.

 

[Visian]

Perhaps we need to have all of them listed on one of the back pages of BMWON with those supporting BMWMOA identified by a "BMWMOA Supporter" logo or something like that (highlighted print, etc.). If we are faced with individual dealers electing to not participate in BMWMOA promotions than we should be identifying those that do support BMWMOA in BMWON and lets see what effect shining "the light of day" on them has. If dealers who choose not to support BMWMOA are allowed to remain relatively anonymous than their actions have very little consequences for them, however, if they are aware that they are being asked to support BMWMOA and that support will be acknowledged, and that their non-participation will be noted, than they'll be more inclined to assist.

Methinks that this would tend to create a confrontational relationship instead of a cooperative one.

Many years of conversations with many dealers throughout the USA and Canada have taught me that there are a lot of dealers that view MOA members as whining old farts with their hand out for discounts.

This is something we probably need to work on.

Any organization that has twice as many BMW owners as BMW sold bikes within that area should have a significant voice with that manufacturer and it's dealer network. That voice should be a collaborative effort to work with both BMW Group and it's sub-companies as well as the their dealer-network. But again, it needs to be and be seen to be a two-way street. To my way of thinking this should be one of BMWMOA's core pillars of it's reasons for existing.

Amen. Please don't forget that BMW NA currently buys a 1-year membership in the MOA with each new bike sold.*

However, we would probably be more successful working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships.

That should be the core pillar of our club.

Ian

* ps => is it improper to ask about the retention rate for these free memberships?

 

[36654]

Methinks that this would tend to create a confrontational relationship instead of a cooperative one.

Many years of conversations with many dealers throughout the USA and Canada have taught me that there are a lot of dealers that view MOA members as whining old farts with their hand out for discounts.

This is something we probably need to work on.



Amen. Please don't forget that BMW NA currently buys a 1-year membership in the MOA with each new bike sold.*

However, we would probably be more successful working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships.

That should be the core pillar of our club.

Ian

* ps => is it improper to ask about the retention rate for these free memberships?

Just to clarify........what should be the core pillar of our club?

 

[Visian]

Just to clarify........what should be the core pillar of our club?

Working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships.

 

[lee]

Please don't forget that BMW NA currently buys a 1-year membership in the MOA with each new bike sold.*

I take it this is only if you are not already a member??

 

[mika]

...snip...
Ian

* ps => is it improper to ask about the retention rate for these free memberships?

 

[BC1100S]

Methinks that this would tend to create a confrontational relationship instead of a cooperative one.

Many years of conversations with many dealers throughout the USA and Canada have taught me that there are a lot of dealers that view MOA members as whining old farts with their hand out for discounts.

This is something we probably need to work on.

Careful, you might might offend someone with your blunt, but accurate, opinion.

However, we would probably be more successful working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships.

That is one of the things which is working so well with the club to which I belong.

 

[36654]

Working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships.

Once again........we would be chasing after an objective, that doesn't really need us, telling them that we'll make their lives better.

Sounds kinda of needy, if not pathetic, to me.

BMW and the dealers have a plan that works just fine without us. Spending our time marketing to them, or for them, sounds like making charitable donations to your local grocery or hardware store. At some point, we'll be asking how high do you want us to jump and where?

 

[36654]

I would agree if Ian had not framed it the way he did: "hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships." The hook that makes it work, is the local club. If they see a value and the association can facilitate while potentially improving the stength of a local club, why not?

If a dealer chooses to work with a local club, I think that's great and can understand the potential benefits. However, I wouldn't judge a local club by whether, or not, a local dealer is actively involved with them. But, more importantly, I wouldn't make it a stated objective of any local or the MOA to do gratis marketing for dealerships or the brand. BMW and the dealers have that well in hand. In fact, they pay people to do it.

 

[Gruesome]

core pillar??

But that (drive business to dealers) should certainly NOT be the main purpose of our MOA?! Or what does 'core pillar' mean?

 

[alancoles]

...First of all, look at us MOA members as a group. Mostly retirees that can afford our toys. Now, look at a BMW Car or MC ad. See any of us in those ads? I don't.

We're here, we're the customer, but not really the customer BMW wants or envisions driving/riding their product. In short, BMW AG / NA or Canada will never cater to us (in my opinion)...

That is definitely part of the problem and it is a problem for how virtually every business mistakenly advertises and conducts it's marketing/advertising today. They have a completely, non-fact based concept of what their natural market is.

Fortunately there are a few organizations (way too few) such as CARP (Canada's AARP) that under the very bright and active leadership of it's President/CEO Moses Znaimer has taken to actually identifying that retired persons (baby boomers) are still the dominant consumers in today's marketplace and will continue to be for some time. They have backed this up with data and numbers and are trying to educate business to these facts- a continually unrewarding uphill task.

...As such, I don't see much benefit in making better manufacturer / dealer relations an objective of the MOA. It will always be a one-sided pursuit by us (the undesirable customer) to earn their love...

My feeling is that we should definitely not be putting much effort into trying to "woo" BMW, but rather, politely put forward the message to them that we think they would be best served by trying to improve their relationship with us. Part of the process of putting forward that point would be to find data to support my strong sense that we, BMWMOA members, are not only BMW Motorrad's largest sources of sales and revenue but also it is quite likely that we own as many or more BMW motorcycles than the rest of Canada and the US combined. I own 3, and have dozens of friend who own 2-6 BMW bikes. We have the ability to capture that data from our membership and use it as an educational piece in making BMW Group aware of the very real fact that:

1 - BMWMOA represents BMW Motorrad's largest and most affluent customers in North America, period

2 - BMWMOA has those customers ears far more so than BMW Motorrad can ever hope to and as a result can and will provide BMW Motorrad with valued access to that membership provided that BMW Motorrad clearly demonstrates that they in fact do appreciate their client base and do wish to have a good relationship with us. That doesn't mean that we should be looking for hand-outs, etc., but we should be asking for a continued mutually beneficial relationship.

Should I be drinking a Molson or a Labatt's as I read this thread?

Neither, if you are planning on drinking a beer.

Agreed, there are far better real beers to drink in Canada and now, since the advent of micro-breweries a vast variety of great beers to be found in the US as well. Certainly a great time to be a beer drinker in North America. ;-)

...Many years of conversations with many dealers throughout the USA and Canada have taught me that there are a lot of dealers that view MOA members as whining old farts with their hand out for discounts.

This is something we probably need to work on. ...

I am sure some of those perceptions are well founded, especially with such a large membership, however, they are likely similar to most things in life, the problem customer even though typically very small in number tends to be at the forefront of many retailers minds. THis is where your thinking below comes into play.

...However, we would probably be more successful working directly with each of these dealers, hand-in-hand with our local chartered clubs, to build relationships and offer cooperative activities that drive new business into the dealerships...

Agree 100%. BMWMOA, as I understand it, is in the process of developing a model to address this and other issues. The current effort to build a network of regional representatives that will be tasked with helping build relationships between BMWMOA, local clubs and local dealers should help in this area significantly, depending on the success of providing those reps with a good structure and tools to do such work.

 

[36654]

My feeling is that we should definitely not be putting much effort into trying to "woo" BMW, but rather, politely put forward the message to them that we think they would be best served by trying to improve their relationship with us. Part of the process of putting forward that point would be to find data to support my strong sense that we, BMWMOA members, are not only BMW Motorrad's largest sources of sales and revenue but also it is quite likely that we own as many or more BMW motorcycles than the rest of Canada and the US combined. I own 3, and have dozens of friend who own 2-6 BMW bikes. We have the ability to capture that data from our membership and use it as an educational piece in making BMW Group aware of the very real fact that:

I'm in complete agreement that we should be actively using our membership database to understand the growth dynamics of our own organization as well as our potential value to outside organizations. While the question has been asked several times, leadership seems rather unresponsive on this issue or declines to share what info they have.

 

[Visian]

If a dealer chooses to work with a local club, I think that's great and can understand the potential benefits. However, I wouldn't judge a local club by whether, or not, a local dealer is actively involved with them. But, more importantly, I wouldn't make it a stated objective of any local or the MOA to do gratis marketing for dealerships or the brand. BMW and the dealers have that well in hand. In fact, they pay people to do it.

Not sure how you made this leap... who said anything about passing judgement? My point was to focus on the dealers and local clubs, not the national organization.

Here, let me make this simple for you:

1) BMW MOA member and rider belongs to local club, does business with local dealer.

2) MOA helps local club and dealer work together put on a [track day, tech day, group ride, training day, weekend getaway, meet and eat... ]

3) BMW rider invites a young friend along that wants to buy a motorcycle.

4) Young friend doesn't have much money, is thinking a cheap KLR.

5) Dealer has a super deal on an F650 with only 8,000 miles. Or an airhead.

6) BMW rider shows young friend the bike for sale and young friend buys it.

7) Young friend joins local club and BMW MOA because they dig the community and need information about their bike.


This is just one use case, similar ones can be made for the purchase of new bikes.

Ian

 

[rangerreece]

Ian gets it. In nature I think it's called symbiosis.

 

[ksterner]

Arizona Dealer

Checked with my Dealer in Scottsdale, AZ. They have the memo and the way they read the memo is they have to supply an article in stock worth up to $19. They do not have the neck tube in stock but they do have caps for under $19. Seems like there is a lot of confusion on this.

 

[exgman]

Reece - very nice:

sym·bi·o·sis
ˌsimbīˈōsəs,ˌsimbēˈōsəs/
nounBIOLOGY
interaction between two different organisms living in close physical association, typically to the advantage of both.
a mutually beneficial relationship between different people or groups.
plural noun: symbioses
"a perfect mother and daughter symbiosis"

Seems sortof like a good marriage...