Our 2025 Rally : The What, Where & Why... Lebanon Tennessee : June 19-21 2025

[Omega Man]

A lot of speculation and conjecture on this. I doubt that it is a plot. I’ll bet either a call to HQ or some patience will reveal how the choice(s) are/were made.
OM

 

[brownie0486]

A lot of speculation and conjecture on this. I doubt that it is a plot. I’ll bet either a call to HQ or some patience will reveal how the choice(s) are/were made.
OM

Shouldn't the reason for their decision have accompanied the news release on the venue for 2025? Or didn't they expect some push back from members when they changed their own schedule/zone assignments by year? I don't think it's a plot in any way. Yet, there's members who would have appreciated an explanation as to why they chose to change the venue which is in another zone?

Like I mentioned, no dog in the fight, but their changing the venue without consulting/notifying the members of their prospective zone change and WHY, without any input from members seems to be creating discourse with some of the members. I can understand their surprise and disappointment.
Perhaps they didn't expect any major blow back from members or maybe very little blow back [ which it appears to be at this time ]. One shouldn't have to ask the BOD or committee why they made their decision, IMO, of course.

 

[Omega Man]

A different view from a past thread-

Repeat Sites

Just wondering why sites are never repeated.

forums.bmwmoa.org

OM

 

[flyhi2cfar]

A lot of speculation and conjecture on this. I doubt that it is a plot. I’ll bet either a call to HQ or some patience will reveal how the choice(s) are/were made.
OM

This.
Sometime in our future, details of the "Lebanon change-up" will be communicated. How that will sit with the members, is the question.

 

[brownie0486]

A different view from a past thread-

Repeat Sites

Just wondering why sites are never repeated.

forums.bmwmoa.org

OM

I'd read that thread last year. It concerns repeat sites, not the out of order zone picks. I think repeat sites are okay, particularly the ones where most attendees report great times and riding/location. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "stay in your lane". With the announcement to forego the expected zone pick. The powers that be that made that decision moved out of the expected lane [ zone ].

There's a discussion on the venue pick in this thread over on the bmwmoa FB page as well. Several members weren't aware of the 3 zones and what states each encompassed.

 

[vetbmwrider]

If you never had to find a rally site that checks off all the requirements can be difficult, then you have all the back and forth with the site location. this can go on for months with negotiating then all it takes is one party backing out then the site is gone. Then you have you rush to find a new site, and it easier to look at past locations. then try and find a new site. If this did happen then I can understand the need to go back to an old site. Now if this was the BOD first choice then they need to look at what why the rally site committee failed to find a location. within the cental zone. In the past the MOA had all the requirement posted on the website for members to help find rally sites locations for the committee, I do not know if it still there.

 

[chuck3]

I’m pretty sure there is a Rally Site selection committee. Perhaps give the office a call and volunteer for that committee. It will give you an idea of all the considerations and logistics that are needed to put on an event of this size.
OM

I'm just going to say thanks, but no thanks to your condesending posts (in this one and your following posts)! And since I have been a MOA member for 45 years; yes, I am familiar with the considerations and logistics' needed to put on an event of this size.

I don't need to 'call the office'; I'll leave that to you!

As has been mentioned by other members, if Sturgis and the Black Hills area/Fargo etc can accommodate a crowd of 50,000-100,00 plus people annually, they can easily handle our piddly little rally of 5,000-10,000...

While I certainly thank and appreciate all the efforts of the Rally chairs, on down to the regular member volunteers (of which I'm one and have volunteered at almost all of the 25-30 rallies I've attended), this has been a decision that was made by a select few people; maybe 4-5 board members and finally higher-ups from them, who actually made the final choice to disregard the site rotation map/schedule that we as members (through our elected board-directors) had voted for!

As was mentioned earlier in this thread the 'membership-site recommendation committee' doesn't really have any power, so that's just a exercise without reason... The current site/map was approved in 2019 and I have not noticed any communication to the membership as to a change in this, nor have I seen any active process towards achieving this?

What I can see here is an extreme lack of transparency; and this is never a good sign in any organization! Someone here (with the power to do this) has decided for all of us club members (30K?) to ignore the Rally site/rotation map for their own reasons? The Rally committee would have had 3-4 years to choose a Rally site (from 16 states !!!), so extraneous reasons and excuses don't add up...

If I was a 'new' member I would be concerned about what kind of a motorcycle 'club' this is, and as a long time member I would be worried about membership retention. But maybe the leadership doesn't care, as long as they get a cement pad for their RV/motorhome?

 

[TEDZEMLICKA]

2 benefits of Lebanon for me:
It's closer than Fargo.
Fargo isn't a place I've ever considered a destination for anything of interest.

 

[tangoalpha]

Well, how about that!

The Rally announcement is in the May Owners News!

I haven’t been able to break free for any of the past rallies. However next year’s rally in Lebanon, Tennessee looks feasible. Would love to connect with MOA members from TX and ride up together.

 

[gsinnc]

After the fantastic weather enjoyed there six years ago in June... I would be hard pressed to see reason for change.
No OFFICIAL Announcement (here or other communication media sources) from MOA's Staff or a Board Officer as of yet.
Figure the details are coming soon though!

Yes except that weather was not the normal summer Tennessee weather. I hope we have another mild weather run but I suspect not

 

[IronBa]

MOA Rallies are much like the weather. Lots of people complain but no one does anything about it.

The reason for Lebanon location seem to be:

A. Tennessee is close enough to be a Central State
B. Rally sites per-requisites (lodging, food, attractions) for a large crowd are challenging in a short turn around time
C. Conspiracy of Laissez-faire (rather "Lass es Geschehen") attitude by the elected BoD
D. Conspiracy of the elected BoD vendetta to simply upset the membership
E. Aliens (it's always aliens)

I typically give people the benefit of the doubt for these things. There so much planning and work that we don't see. Hell, maybe that would be a great MOA article on how rally sites are considered and selected?

As for me, I'm going with the Aliens theory....

 

[brownie0486]

IronBa​

Lebanon is over 300+ miles. inside Tenn. Is that now close enough to their own listed national zones?

All of this banter could have been negated by the article in the ON explaining why they made that decision. No explanation has created some discourse among members.

 

[r65_steve]

My $.02 if anyone cares. Lebanon was my first National. I trailered the bike and had a good time doing day rides. I enjoyed the facility. I skipped MT (too far) and really enjoyed riding to MO in the heat. Richmond was a good event, but too close to me (was there in 90 minutes) so a bit of a let down, esp when there were other parts of VA that could have been used. I will ride to TN this time and I now have a year to make plans for it, but there are other parts of America I haven't been to, really wanted to see what was in the central zone. So, a little disappointed in location, but if it was like 2019, it'll be a good time. I guess I can find other ways to see other parts of America from the saddle.

 

[gregfeeler]

I'm just going to say thanks, but no thanks to your condesending posts (in this one and your following posts)! And since I have been a MOA member for 45 years; yes, I am familiar with the considerations and logistics' needed to put on an event of this size.

I don't need to 'call the office'; I'll leave that to you!

As has been mentioned by other members, if Sturgis and the Black Hills area/Fargo etc can accommodate a crowd of 50,000-100,00 plus people annually, they can easily handle our piddly little rally of 5,000-10,000...

While I certainly thank and appreciate all the efforts of the Rally chairs, on down to the regular member volunteers (of which I'm one and have volunteered at almost all of the 25-30 rallies I've attended), this has been a decision that was made by a select few people; maybe 4-5 board members and finally higher-ups from them, who actually made the final choice to disregard the site rotation map/schedule that we as members (through our elected board-directors) had voted for!

As was mentioned earlier in this thread the 'membership-site recommendation committee' doesn't really have any power, so that's just a exercise without reason... The current site/map was approved in 2019 and I have not noticed any communication to the membership as to a change in this, nor have I seen any active process towards achieving this?

What I can see here is an extreme lack of transparency; and this is never a good sign in any organization! Someone here (with the power to do this) has decided for all of us club members (30K?) to ignore the Rally site/rotation map for their own reasons? The Rally committee would have had 3-4 years to choose a Rally site (from 16 states !!!), so extraneous reasons and excuses don't add up...

If I was a 'new' member I would be concerned about what kind of a motorcycle 'club' this is, and as a long time member I would be worried about membership retention. But maybe the leadership doesn't care, as long as they get a cement pad for their RV/motorhome?

I didn't see Omega Man's reply to you as being condescending. If any member has a question they should call the office to inquire and get facts rather than continue on with random speculation.

I was on our Board for 13 years so voted on many rally sites, I also chaired the Salt Lake rally and was a Co-Chair for Springfield, and have looked at a number of prospective rally sites, some of which were selected, so I have a bit of insight in the process. In a nut shell, a successful MOA rally site has to meet a long list of qualifications including so much indoor vendor space, rooms for seminars, parking, adequate camping, near by hotel room capacity, and - yes - RV parking, location, availability at our desired time, and cost.

Ever since the Great Recession triggered a continuing decline in our membership and rally attendance, finding suitable sites has become harder because we are still big enough to have a "big" list of needs, and yet getting so small that we can't afford a number of good sites. With our current rally model, somewhere around 3,800 to 4,000 people is break even for a moderately priced site. At one time we could count on 5,500 to 8,000+ attendees, but those days are over. Now, we are in the mid-4,000's. And, as our attendance has declined many sites have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their fees and thus priced themselves out of our reach. In particular, most sites big enough to handle up to 10,000 people will almost certainly be too expensive for us.

Further, there are parts of the country where it's always been difficult to find a good site. We have been to Oregon so many times because there just aren't suitable venues in either California or Washington State. The mid-west has a lot of giant fair grounds (Sedilia, Des Moines, St. Paul), but those large venues also are not cheap, and unless the local Convention and Visitors Bureau or similar group can kick in a significant financial off-set we often can't afford them anymore.

For all the above reasons, the club is not in a position to lock down sites more than a year or two in advance. During the big growth years leading up to 2008, we were working as much as five years out because we were making good money on the rallies, the club was growing, and we could predict future rally attendance - but now the club is shrinking, rally attendee is highly variable, and money is tight. The club simply can not afford to ever lose money on a rally. When working with such short lead times, sometimes something does come up last minute and a venue change must be made. I know for a fact this has happened before. Crap really does happen.

Having said all this, I do believe the Board owes the membership an explanation behind this decision, at least some reasons for skipping the Central Zone. After all, the rally rotation schedule is a commitment from the club to the members about the general location of our biggest annual event, and many rely on that schedule to make decisions about rally attendance for some years in advance. Overall, the club management could do much better in communicating to the membership, and this is a good example. But, that's a discussion for another time, and doesn't affect the fact that we are going to have a rally in 2025 at a great location in a great part of the county in a community that is thrilled to have us come back.

 

[gsinnc]

I didn't see Omega Man's reply to you as being condescending. If any member has a question they should call the office to inquire and get facts rather than continue on with random speculation.

I was on our Board for 13 years so voted on many rally sites, I also chaired the Salt Lake rally and was a Co-Chair for Springfield, and have looked at a number of prospective rally sites, some of which were selected, so I have a bit of insight in the process. In a nut shell, a successful MOA rally site has to meet a long list of qualifications including so much indoor vendor space, rooms for seminars, parking, adequate camping, near by hotel room capacity, and - yes - RV parking, location, availability at our desired time, and cost.

Ever since the Great Recession triggered a continuing decline in our membership and rally attendance, finding suitable sites has become harder because we are still big enough to have a "big" list of needs, and yet getting so small that we can't afford a number of good sites. With our current rally model, somewhere around 3,800 to 4,000 people is break even for a moderately priced site. At one time we could count on 5,500 to 8,000+ attendees, but those days are over. Now, we are in the mid-4,000's. And, as our attendance has declined many sites have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their fees and thus priced themselves out of our reach. In particular, most sites big enough to handle up to 10,000 people will almost certainly be too expensive for us.

Further, there are parts of the country where it's always been difficult to find a good site. We have been to Oregon so many times because there just aren't suitable venues in either California or Washington State. The mid-west has a lot of giant fair grounds (Sedilia, Des Moines, St. Paul), but those large venues also are not cheap, and unless the local Convention and Visitors Bureau or similar group can kick in a significant financial off-set we often can't afford them anymore.

For all the above reasons, the club is not in a position to lock down sites more than a year or two in advance. During the big growth years leading up to 2008, we were working as much as five years out because we were making good money on the rallies, the club was growing, and we could predict future rally attendance - but now the club is shrinking, rally attendee is a highly variable, and money is tight. The club simply can not afford to ever lose money on a rally. When working with such short lead times, sometimes something does come up last minute and a venue change must be made. I know for a fact this has happened before. Crap really does happen.

Having said all this, I do believe the Board owes the membership an explanation behind this decision, at least some reasons for skipping the Central Zone. After all, the rally rotation schedule is a commitment from the club to the members about the general location of our biggest annual event, and many rely on that schedule to make decisions about rally attendance for some years in advance. Overall, the club management could do much better in communicating to the membership, and this is a good example. But, that's a discussion for another time, and doesn't affect the fact that we are going to have a rally in 2025 at a great location in a great part of the county in a community that is thrilled to have us come back.

Nice reply !! And yes I too did not think OM's reply was condescending.

 

[brownie0486]

I didn't see Omega Man's reply to you as being condescending. If any member has a question they should call the office to inquire and get facts rather than continue on with random speculation.

I was on our Board for 13 years so voted on many rally sites, I also chaired the Salt Lake rally and was a Co-Chair for Springfield, and have looked at a number of prospective rally sites, some of which were selected, so I have a bit of insight in the process. In a nut shell, a successful MOA rally site has to meet a long list of qualifications including so much indoor vendor space, rooms for seminars, parking, adequate camping, near by hotel room capacity, and - yes - RV parking, location, availability at our desired time, and cost.

Ever since the Great Recession triggered a continuing decline in our membership and rally attendance, finding suitable sites has become harder because we are still big enough to have a "big" list of needs, and yet getting so small that we can't afford a number of good sites. With our current rally model, somewhere around 3,800 to 4,000 people is break even for a moderately priced site. At one time we could count on 5,500 to 8,000+ attendees, but those days are over. Now, we are in the mid-4,000's. And, as our attendance has declined many sites have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their fees and thus priced themselves out of our reach. In particular, most sites big enough to handle up to 10,000 people will almost certainly be too expensive for us.

Further, there are parts of the country where it's always been difficult to find a good site. We have been to Oregon so many times because there just aren't suitable venues in either California or Washington State. The mid-west has a lot of giant fair grounds (Sedilia, Des Moines, St. Paul), but those large venues also are not cheap, and unless the local Convention and Visitors Bureau or similar group can kick in a significant financial off-set we often can't afford them anymore.

For all the above reasons, the club is not in a position to lock down sites more than a year or two in advance. During the big growth years leading up to 2008, we were working as much as five years out because we were making good money on the rallies, the club was growing, and we could predict future rally attendance - but now the club is shrinking, rally attendee is highly variable, and money is tight. The club simply can not afford to ever lose money on a rally. When working with such short lead times, sometimes something does come up last minute and a venue change must be made. I know for a fact this has happened before. Crap really does happen.

Having said all this, I do believe the Board owes the membership an explanation behind this decision, at least some reasons for skipping the Central Zone. After all, the rally rotation schedule is a commitment from the club to the members about the general location of our biggest annual event, and many rely on that schedule to make decisions about rally attendance for some years in advance. Overall, the club management could do much better in communicating to the membership, and this is a good example. But, that's a discussion for another time, and doesn't affect the fact that we are going to have a rally in 2025 at a great location in a great part of the county in a community that is thrilled to have us come back.

Sound to me sitting on the sidelines, you've brought another question [ or two ] to the plate. That being, if the attendance keeps getting lower, will there be a time when the BOD decides NO MORE NATIONAL RALLIES because it's not making enough money to pay for the event? The other question would be, do you think the BOD will eventually just have to keep picking the same places over and over again.

As an example, west coast Oregon, mid states Missouri, east coast Tenn. [ just standardized west/mid/east coast cities over and over again ]. It's not so much the members who belong but those who'll attend any of them in the future as the rally dwindles in attendance numbers as it has.

How much money does the bmwmoa give away in training chit discounts for the SC facility? How much is used elsewhere than could be redirected to financing the rallies? How many GS's are afforded [ to the tune of 20+K per ] for that SC facility to train motor riders? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[gregfeeler]

Sound to me sitting on the sidelines, you've brought another question [ or two ] to the plate. That being, if the attendance keeps getting lower, will there be a time when the BOD decides NO MORE NATIONAL RALLIES because it's not making enough money to pay for the event? The other question would be, do you think the BOD will eventually just have to keep picking the same places over and over again.

As an example, west coast Oregon, mid states Missouri, east coast Tenn. [ just standardized west/mid/east coast cities over and over again ]. It's not so much the members who belong but those who'll attend any of them in the future as the rally dwindles in attendance numbers as it has.

How much money does the bmwmoa give away in training chit discounts for the SC facility? How much is used elsewhere than could be redirected to financing the rallies? How many GS's are afforded [ to the tune of 20+K per ] for that SC facility to train motor riders? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I wouldn't stop planning to attend MOA rallies any time soon. These kind of "what if" questions are really impossible to answer unless someone has a crystal ball, and at this point at least, pointless to speculate on, in my opinion.

As for the training "chit discounts" at the BMW Riding Performance Center, it is the BMW MOA Foundation - not the BMW MOA - who provides those. The Foundation is a wholly separate organization from the BMW MOA.

 

[brownie0486]

I wouldn't stop planning to attend MOA rallies any time soon. These kind of "what if" questions are really impossible to answer unless someone has a crystal ball, and at this point at least, pointless to speculate on, in my opinion.

As for the training "chit discounts" at the BMW Riding Performance Center, it is the BMW MOA Foundation - not the BMW MOA - who provides those. The Foundation is a wholly separate organization from the BMW MOA.

IYO, at what number of attendees [ the least number needed ] would make it financially untenable to continue the national rally? 3K? 2K? If we keep losing the numbers in attendance, there has to be a number where the board says, can't do it this year.

How far down the rabbit hole, IYO, will the board go on lack of attendance before cancelling nationals? There's got to be a number that flips the switch to not having enough attend to make it viable anywhere.

 

[gsinnc]

IYO, at what number of attendees [ the least number needed ] would make it financially untenable to continue the national rally? 3K? 2K? If we keep losing the numbers in attendance, there has to be a number where the board says, can't do it this year.

How far down the rabbit hole, IYO, will the board go on lack of attendance before cancelling nationals? There's got to be a number that flips the switch to not having enough attend to make it viable anywhere.

Maybe it's me but I suspect even with LOW attendance numbers there would still be a National Rally. Heck the RA does it with 1,000 ....yes NOT the same kind of event but for me it's the people and the bikes. I just attended a BMWST event with 100+ attendees and had a blast. Great people, great bikes, great location .... all the rest is just details for me. Isn't the beer garden a big expense with license and insurance? Not sure but just asking. If they cut that out and folks had to BYOB the fun would still happen. Adventure Rallies and Overlanding events are growing so there has to be a way to leverage that segment. Just saying.

 

[Paul_F]

One positive that I see for a National Rally in the east that has not been mentioned is, for the most part, being further away from forest fires in the west that have been an unfortunate summer occurrence in the west. Apparently inhaling the smoke from those fires have extremely adverse health consequences and being on motorcycles we inevitably inhale more of those fumes than folks in cars. In Alberta, a number of fires continued through the winter and are expected to really flourish during this upcoming summer.

Of course Lebanon was a good facility as well. I agree with Greg that an explanation is not unreasonable to the membership as many had expectations for a mid-west. National Rally.