DIY/Tech Library Brake Fluid Change Conflict w/Haynes 08 RT

[cookie]

I have changed/flushed the brake fluid on my 08 RT at least 2 times without any issues using Mr. Semper Fi's, awesome step by step instructions.
I was looking through my Haynes manual specific to this motorcycle and there is a warning:
"Any attempt to drain and refill the ABS in the conventional way will result in air trapped in the system and brake system failure-On machines fitted with ABS it is not possible to change the fluid without the use of a diagnostic tester-the procedure must be undertaken by a BMW dealer."
Considering I have had no issues with the brake system on my RT and the brakes perform better than my highest expectations, I can only assume the editors of this Haynes manual are either mistaken or stupid.
What are your thoughts?

 

[deilenberger]

Sorta stupid.

There are quite a few flaws in the Haynes manual that I briefly glanced at last night. Things like a careful explanation/photos of lubing the throttle cable on an R bike.. which should NEVER EVER be lubed since it's Teflon lined, and lubing it will cause the Teflon to expand and capture the inner cable - destroying the cable.

Do note that Haynes was referring to "drain and refill" - which IS different from flushing the brake fluid (where the system is kept full with no air introduced to it) - but enough people have successfully R&R'd their defective ABS module to get it repaired, and managed to refill and bleed the system just fine. If you really want to do it 100% - get a GS-911, it has an ABS bleed function that activates the ABS modulator so you can push fluid through it.

 

[cookie]

So it sounds like I have not properly flushed my brake fluid if there is some action by command via the GS-911 I am unable to perform.
Maybe this is one of those operations I need to have performed by my very capable dealer. I see the Gs-911 is $300. I believe I paid less than $75 to have my brake fluid flushed the first time at the dealer.
It is too bad the service manuals produced are not accurate.
One more reason my annual subscription to BMW MOA is worth every penny.
Thank you Don.

 

[dbrick]

So it sounds like I have not properly flushed my brake fluid if there is some action by command via the GS-911 I am unable to perform.

Jeff,

The newer ABS systems can be bled or completely flushed without the GS-911, but flushing takes longer as one is dealing with more system volume than in a non-ABS brake system. By activating the ABS modulator, which creates some vibration, the GS-911 also tends to free up any little bubbles that are trapped within the hydraulic system.

So...maybe you have flushed the system completely, and maybe not. When you were finished, was the brake fluid emerging completely clear (all the old fluid gone) and free of bubbles? Do the brake lever (front circuit) and brake pedal (rear circuit) both feel firm? If "yes," you probably did fine; if "no," I'd guess the job should be done again.

 

[cookie]

Yes, solid lever and clean bubble free fluid. I am coming up on two years and it needs to be flushed again.
It is two years right? 08 RT with ESA and the standard awesome anti-lock abs system??

 

[deilenberger]

Jeff,

I believe the difference is.. without the GS-911 or the dealers computer - you flush the fluid, but there is a tiny bit left in the modulator that isn't flushed.

I believe (but can't find any real documentation on the modulator hydraulic circuitry) that the ABS pump circuit remains isolated unless the ABS is activated. That's what the GS-911 does - activates the ABS pump. So if you're flushing fluid through the system and activate the ABS by using the GS-911, that tiny bit of old brake fluid which might remain in the pump is also flushed out, or if there is any air trapped in the ABS pumping circuit - it's flushed out.

I seem to recall (old memory - could be all wet, but I do remember it..) also being able to activate the ABS pump circuit by turning on the bike (engine doesn't have to be started, but full ignition on), and spinning the rear wheel while gently pressing down the rear brake pedal. Or it might have been spinning the front wheel (forget which) - if you do this you'll feel a buzz in the brake pedal and hear the pump activate (buzz noise.) Flush while it's buzzing.

I think that does the same thing that the GS-911 triggers by showing the ABS computer a difference in wheel speeds, without having to spend the $300 for the GS-911 (although it's certainly not money wasted - there is lots more then just brake flush to the GS-911.)

And yes - it's 2 years (starting on the date of manufacture - not the sales/in-service date.)

 

[cookie]

Thank you for the tips on the ABS pump, I can do that.
You da man Don!

 

[pglaves]

General Reply: There are many procedures where aftermarket repair manuals - Clymer, Haynes, Chilton, and others - say "take it to a qualified repair facility". This is particularly true where life safety is an immediate factor and where a system in question is technically new and novel. So, taking a pass on servicing whizzy brakes doesn't surprise me. I even have a few manuals that say "go see the dealer" about final drives.

 

[deilenberger]

General Reply: There are many procedures where aftermarket repair manuals - Clymer, Haynes, Chilton, and others - say "take it to a qualified repair facility". This is particularly true where life safety is an immediate factor and where a system in question is technically new and novel. So, taking a pass on servicing whizzy brakes doesn't surprise me. I even have a few manuals that say "go see the dealer" about final drives.

Paul, this isn't even the Whizzy Brakes - from '07 on it's the simple linked/ABS ones, which can be flushed quite easily if you're not worried about the 50cc or so that remains in the ABS modulator pump. If you are - spinning the wheel will activate it (from memory, have to try it on the '12 one..) or the GS-911 works fine.

The general quality of Haynes manuals has deteriorated over the years from their highpoint of the manual for the E28 BMW cars - which was used by almost every factory mechanic I knew instead of the BMW manuals. The one I just got for the 2012 bike has small poorly exposed fuzzy photos, steps missing, misinformation and a fairly useless section on general shop practices. I guess we should be thankful that there IS an aftermarket manual - but I'd suggest people also purchase the REP-ROM from BMW and read that before tackling anything using the Haynes. Other good DIY sources are our DIY subforum here, and Jim Bade's DVDs.

 

[cookie]

Don, you were right, I turned the key to the on position, spun the rear tire and for a split second there was a buzz/vibration.
I went ahead and flushed the fluid front and back using the best source I know. I used our own, "Semper Fi" DIY source right here.
Brakes are perfect!. No air in the system and the brake fluid is considerably cleaner than what I removed.
Thank you BMW MOA!

 

[deilenberger]

Jeff,

Glad to hear my memory hadn't failed me.. it's been about 4-5 years since I discovered this, and since the GS-911 had added the ABS flush option, I didn't have to use it.