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SPOT vs. 406 EPIRB/PLB

aa3jy

New member
From my experience from my trip to remote regions of the Yukon and Alaska..I preferred having the PLB along. I'd like to hear more opinions from those whom prefer SPOT.
 
I don't have a PLB, so why don't you start and tell us why you like it better, then let people chime in.

I have a spot and can tell you it is cheaper, has tracking capabilities, has non emergency message capability, is smaller and lighter than PLB's I have seen.

Mine is not so much for emergency rescue, although it would do that fine, it is to let the wife know I am alive and moving, for those times I am off alone riding. And if I was involved in an accident where I was not capable of activating a device, my location could still be tracked.
 
I don't have a PLB, so why don't you start and tell us why you like it better, then let people chime in.

I have a spot and can tell you it is cheaper, has tracking capabilities, has non emergency message capability, is smaller and lighter than PLB's I have seen.

Mine is not so much for emergency rescue, although it would do that fine, it is to let the wife know I am alive and moving, for those times I am off alone riding. And if I was involved in an accident where I was not capable of activating a device, my location could still be tracked.
http://www.acrelectronics.com/faqs/spotvs.aspx
http://energyindustryphotos.com/a_guide_to_personal_locator_beac.htm
http://www.theaccessroad.com/08/spot-messenger-vs-acr-plb

..bottom line what's your life worth in an emergency? Though this thread deals with PLB vs. SPOT opinions.. I deliberately excluded SAT phone as another resource...
 
From my experience from my trip to remote regions of the Yukon and Alaska..I preferred having the PLB along.

Having done my homework, I plan to buy a PLB for an upcoming month-long tour into a remote area. I will also have a sat phone with me.

I'm not interested in having someone track my progress. I want a device when I have a serious emergency. Plus other than the upfront cost, I like the fact that the service is free.
 
Having done my homework, I plan to buy a PLB for an upcoming month-long tour into a remote area. I will also have a sat phone with me.

I'm not interested in having someone track my progress. I want a device when I have a serious emergency. Plus other than the upfront cost, I like the fact that the service is free.

There is an optional service for the PLB which can do about the same thing as SPOT

http://406link.com/
 
If I'm going to the true boonies, I'll be taking one of each, otherwise, Spot works fine for my purposes now.
 
But that uses up battery power. Even if it uses negligible power, that isn't a chance I'd like to take.

The batteries in a PLB are not user replaceable. The unit has to be sent in for that.

Correct..but the battery has to be replaced in 5yrs anyway..so why not enjoy the optional service..as I recall there is an limited number ( I think 400)of short text messages that can be sent before the unit shuts off that feature to save the battery.
 
Correct..but the battery has to be replaced in 5yrs anyway.

But I'd sooner have it as fresh as it can be. The batteries actually have a shelf life of about 11 years, but to make sure they are serviceable, they change them every 5 years as you stated.

Like my cell phone, I need it to work the next instant which is why it does not play music or take pics. I have a camera and radio for that.
 
Greetings,

Decide what you want the unit to do.

If you're looking for a true emergency response no matter what you need a 406 EPIRB which is pretty much the same as a PLB.

That will get you help anywhere on the planet and get you fined if you activate it by mistake. It's what they carry on ship and planes.

A SPOT tracker is a wonderful device for keeping family and friends informed as to your position and status. While it claims to offer emergency service when you send an SOS it goes to a private service who then relays your emergency to the authorities who then decide based on the information provided what to do about it. I have read horror stories of a SPOT response to an operator reported emergency to be 24hrs as they couldn't see the injured person from the road.

A EPIRB transmits on two frequencies, one is the 406mhz for the satellites and the other is a UHF for search and rescue when they get close. By international treaty every 406 signal is investigated and tracked until the unit is found or in some sad cases stops transmitting. I know of a rescue operation commenced for a few buddies where their EPIRB signal lasted less than 60 seconds.

So if you're really going far off the beaten path you should at a minimum carry a PLB and as far as I'm concerned the only one to carry is one made by ACR. Your next decision is how to communicate with friends and family which can be by SPOT or rented sat phone. I'd carry a 406 EPIRB and a sat phone with a SPOT tracker being carried only if I had it installed on the bike anyway, i.e. I wouldn't purchase a SPOT tracker as a safety device for a dangerous trip.

EDIT: While we're on the topic no rescue system is perfect and you best be prepared to face it on your own. It's a long story but about 25 years ago I was in trouble off Atlantic City and while not in grave danger after four hours of searching the USCG finally told me to activate our EPRIB. Imagine our joy when we heard USCG Cape May, Fire Island, Baltimore and a few others all report they didn't get jack for a signal.
 
If you're looking for a true emergency response no matter what you need a 406 EPIRB which is pretty much the same as a PLB.

Same system, except carting an EPIRP with you isn't very convenient. Thats why they made PLBs.

A EPIRB transmits on two frequencies, one is the 406mhz for the satellites and the other is a UHF for search and rescue when they get close.

So if you're really going far off the beaten path you should at a minimum carry a PLB and as far as I'm concerned the only one to carry is one made by ACR.

A PLB transmits a VHF of 121.5 MHz which is used for homing. The output is a mere 50 mW ?? 3 dB which is all that is needed for rescue to locate you those last few hundred meters.

Its not the "only one". Microwave Monolithics makes on that is more compact and has a 48 hour transmit time.
 
Same system, except carting an EPIRP with you isn't very convenient. Thats why they made PLBs.



A PLB transmits a VHF of 121.5 MHz which is used for homing. The output is a mere 50 mW ?? 3 dB which is all that is needed for rescue to locate you those last few hundred meters.

Its not the "only one". Microwave Monolithics makes on that is more compact and has a 48 hour transmit time.

Correct concerning the size as well as the 'homing' VHF freg..another major diff. is that EPIRBS are registered to marine vessel/ship/boat and ELT's are registered to aircraft/rotorcraft/balloons/air ships. Where as the PLB is registered to the person.

Still want to hear more about SPOT as their choice..just to keep the spirit of this thread..
 
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Spot/plb

I carry both.

The SPOT is purely for friends/family to have an idea of where I am. Since I have this bad habit of making my trips into impromptu excursions to wherever looks interesting at the time, it is wonderful for it's purpose. It is also kinda nice to compare to the GPS track when I get back. I have no idea how well the check-in messaging works since it has never been set up. Nice toy, but not what I am willing to risk life and limb on.

The SAR activator is an ACR Aqua-Link (think that is the model). It goes on the bikes, in the boat, in the backpack, etc. I just feel a lot better knowing that it is being responded to by professionals than Sally Sue at the call center.

The thinking goes like this: IF USAF responds to an ELT/PLB they have some experience and expertise available to understand the format of the received GPS location. They also have access to RDF's to pinpoint the secondary signal. I can 100% guarantee that local authorities DO NOT understand the possibilities of 'scrambling' a LAT-LONG set of numbers. I have brought this up with a few sheriffs, fire chiefs, etc in rural locations and they are not even aware that LAT-LONG can be expressed in different formats. Sorry, but I don't really want to be laying there leaking bodily fluids while Bubba searches 20 miles away because the person answering the emergency phone number in that county wrote down a period instead of a colon. Or can't use the internet well enough to go to my SPOT page.

Overkill? Maybe, but I am pretty sure I am getting low on my account balance of 'miracle escapes' from bad circumstances due to my life long addiction to adrenalin.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the SPOT can be 'loaned' to somebody else so their family/friends can track their trip if you are not using it. Or, so I have heard - I would never consider testing the limits of their service agreement.
 
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I have brought this up with a few sheriffs, fire chiefs, etc in rural locations and they are not even aware that LAT-LONG can be expressed in different formats.

Good point, I never thought of that. Maybe because I've worked with maps a lot and converting from one to the other is a no-brainer.
 
The thinking goes like this: IF USAF responds to an ELT/PLB they have some experience and expertise available to understand the format of the received GPS location. They also have access to RDF's to pinpoint the secondary signal. I can 100% guarantee that local authorities DO NOT understand the possibilities of 'scrambling' a LAT-LONG set of numbers. I have brought this up with a few sheriffs, fire chiefs, etc in rural locations and they are not even aware that LAT-LONG can be expressed in different formats. Sorry, but I don't really want to be laying there leaking bodily fluids while Bubba searches 20 miles away because the person answering the emergency phone number in that county wrote down a period instead of a colon. Or can't use the internet well enough to go to my SPOT page.
The problem lies in the conversion from the GPS's decimal to the chart's deg./min./sec. format to include which datum the charts are in. I believe for example: the N/W Territories are still charted in the old British Admiralty datum and where not recently updated to the current WGS84 datum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGS84
 
It's kinda hard for me to keep this from turning into a 'soapbox' on this subject. With the increasing popularity of SPOT, cell phone apps, PLB's, handheld GPS, etc,etc - there is getting to be definable portion of the population that relies on them while pursuing their leisure time activities. Hunters, riders, hikers, etc are relying on what they think the 'be all - end all' of rescue initiators. The problem with that is there has been no education/training of a very large segement of the First Responder community.

Clay and Alex touched on just 2 of the problems with location of an electronic signal when the person responding isn't knowledgable in the vagaries of nav notations. And it is illogical to think that every person, in every agency SHOULD have this knowledge.

So, back to the OP's original concerns - what to do?

First - there is no guarantee (ever heard that before?).

Next, cover as many of your own bases as possible. If you use a SPOT or other app that periodically updates a web service - be sure that you give the web address to a few people who can track your position. Personally, I like for that person to be an obnoxious, hard headed type that has no problem calling the local Sheriff and telling them "NO! I am showing him about 50 yards south of county road xxx, a half mile west of where it crosses Muddy Creek. I don't care what they told you, send somebody to take a look right there!" Show one of your contacts how to enter LAT-LONG into Google maps. Why Google? It is almost impossible to enter the data in a format that it will not convert to a physical location. Be suspect of ANY device. Obviously if you are seeing a location in Zimbabwe when you know the lost person was in Wyoming 2 hours ago, there will be some question about the accuracy of the data, but be just as suspicious of ANY data unless it is coming from the middle of the Great Plains on a clear, sunny day. Trees, gulleys, weather and a hundred other things can cause errors.

I'm gonna stop here cause I just realized how much I am turning this into a boring, repetitous diatribe. There are some very knowledgable people who can say a lot more than me, and probably better - so if the OP and others want to start a discussion of devices and how they can be EFFECTIVELY used I would be happy to join in.

Just remember - there is a reason it is called SEARCH and Rescue instead of just Rescue.
 
I carry both.

The thinking goes like this: IF USAF responds to an ELT/PLB they have some experience and expertise available to understand the format of the received GPS location. They also have access to RDF's to pinpoint the secondary signal. I can 100% guarantee that local authorities DO NOT understand the possibilities of 'scrambling' a LAT-LONG set of numbers. I have brought this up with a few sheriffs, fire chiefs, etc in rural locations and they are not even aware that LAT-LONG can be expressed in different formats. Sorry, but I don't really want to be laying there leaking bodily fluids while Bubba searches 20 miles away because the person answering the emergency phone number in that county wrote down a period instead of a colon. Or can't use the internet well enough to go to my SPOT page.

Exactly. I work in a 911 center, and it never ceases to amaze me how many of my co-workers are clueless about the different formats. Our CAD computers use one, the GPS's use something different. And trying to find a program on the internet to translate into something usable? LOL. Most of the sites are 'Net Nannied' by our Admin.

Its getting better, but still not perfect.

I keep an aviation sectional chart in my locker, just in case the computers take a dump and we need to get a general idea of where someone is at. Sad thing is, there are only two or three dispatchers that can figure out how to find a lat long on a map. ~sigh~

On the bright side, the five times I've gotten calls from the SPOT people, the users are found pretty much where the SPOT says they were. Sadly, two of them were recoveries instead of rescues. But at least SPOT got the signal out. No cell phone coverage in the middle of the Cascade Range.
 
PLB users I assume carry their units on their person? SPOT users I assume have their units mounted to their bike?
 
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