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AAA Warning on Ethanol

No, Fox News and Star Tribune do not manufacture cars ... their job is to research, compile, and report the news.

Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future and motorists will have a choice between E10 and E15.

Happy new year to all.

Norm
 
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dude. no manufacturer publishes their own news reports without them going out thru a news outlet. you're old enough to have a license, so you should be old enough to understand that. so even tho that paper quotes Ford and Toyota directly, it's still not good enough for ya?

So i gotta ask- are you trying to be difficult on this, are you a shill for the "renewable energy" lobby, or are you just plain dense?

really, i apologize for being blunt (and flirting with insulting), but your protests about credibility of source of info have gone from "questioning" to just plain "obstinate".

You are trying to make a point about what manufacturers said and will do. I say show me where they make that statement about warranty coverage that makes any difference. News reports have nothing to do with warranties. When their websites show the disclaimer, then it might mean something.

I apologize for the earlier spelling mistakes, I was rushing out the door to catch the first showing of Les Miserable at my local theatre.
 
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manufacturers' websites do not list warrany policies or plans. News outlets have reported statements from them as regarding warranty information as it relates to E15.
If that's not good enough for ya, well... do what you want, think what you want. it's your vehicles, & your money.

As far as E10... yeah, that stuff sucks too. The corn lobby for Agri-business has sold us all a bill of goods on that product as well.
 
manufacturers' websites do not list warrany policies or plans. News outlets have reported statements from them as regarding warranty information as it relates to E15.
If that's not good enough for ya, well... do what you want, think what you want. it's your vehicles, & your money.

As far as E10... yeah, that stuff sucks too. The corn lobby for Agri-business has sold us all a bill of goods on that product as well.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.html

http://media.ford.com/

http://media.chrysler.com/homepage.do;jsessionid=325B6BFA7D405F518EEBD0560922556F?mid=1

http://pressroom.toyota.com/corporate/releases/

http://www.hondanews.com/

http://blog.alliance-renault-nissan.com/media-resources/press-release

http://media.vw.com/homepage.do;jsessionid=0C5B2DE81F95760957DFF64802617EC9

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub/p/pcgl/startpage.htm

http://media.daimler.com/
 
so all those links managed to show is that they don't have statements about ethanol compatability and warranty status on their websites.
 
I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!
 
I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!

+1

I believe that history, given the advantage of hindsight that comes with time, will regard ethanol blended gasoline as a well-intentioned, but, a misguided policy of the US government. It won't be the first time that our government has made a mistake nor will it be the last.

I'm stuck with E10 but I won't be using E15 when or if it arrives in my neighborhood Chevron gas pumps.

Happy new year.

Norm
 
Wow, I started this thread and it has certainly grown to a wonderful source of information. There are a few heated rebuttals but most of the smoke has cleared.

Thank you. Now I am a little more informed for the future.
 
People who would put e15 in their vehicle that was not designed for it are the same twits that would try diesel in their gas car. e15 is a flex fuel to be used in flex fuel vehicles.
 
I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!

Whether it's the BLM subsidizing petroleum and NG production on federal lands or the USDA using ethanol as crop insurance, Chevron/Texaco, Exxon, Range resources, Chesapeake, Cargill and ADM will always get their way. Will it change prices? Not really. US produced oil and NG will go to the market that pays the highest price. Exchange rates and world wide economic conditions will determine the price.

One can rail and complain about it all they want, but be warned that most of the pols raising this issue are just looking for a hot button topic that they can ride while making money on all sides of the issue. Sadly, the AMA have fallen for this bait and is now just a sad little tool.
 
We had one of those old B's from the late 1930's that you could start with a hand wheel. Since the tractor didn't have a 3-point hitch it was pretty worthless, but tires were the only wear items. The air cleaner was a wad of wire screen at the end of an intake tube.

New gas, old gas, even dirty gas, it really didn't matter. You poured it in and it burned. Once enough crap went thru the fuel system, you dropped the glass bowls on the fuel filter and cleaned them. These products were made for a world before our current pristine fuel standards......when "whatever you were lucky enough to get was good enough".

So, in a world with folks in a tizzy about E10 or E15 in their lawn mower or Evinrude, I can only chuckle.

Keep chuckling and hand the cash to your dealer. That 1930s tractor didn't meet current emissions standards. It ran pig rich and could run on almost anything because of it. Carbureted power equipment is hit harder by ethanol than almost any other product. Fuel used for emissions testing burns similar to straight gasoline. It is a constant balancing act to tune an engine to meet emissions standards on cert fuel while keeping it running well on E10. Richening up the mixture to use E15 will cause some engines to fail emissions standards. Running an engine designed for a maximum of E10 on E15 may cause performance problems and possibly even engine damage. Switching to a colder plug may help, but you can't recommend that unless you choose to certify your engine with both spark plugs. EPA and CARB regulations have also eliminated the adjustments from carburetors. Even the tamper resistant caps that could be pried off the adjustment screws are a thing of the past. Go ahead and use E15 in your power equipment. Even if you take the proper precautions to prevent fuel decomposition and water contamination, running an engine on E15 that wasn't designed for it may cause damage. When that day comes, keep on chuckling while you write the check for repairs or parts. Moving forward, closed loop fuel injection systems could cure this, but it won't me cheap. Do you know anyone who wants to pay $1000 for a consumer walk behind mower.

There is an alternative, but the politicians won't touch it. If ethanol wasn't such a politically charged item, we could scrap it and run a higher percentage of isobutanol while having equivalent performance to E10. Converting ethanol plants into isobutanol plants is feasible and we'd have a better fuel supply in the country.
 
Keep chuckling and hand the cash to your dealer. That 1930s tractor didn't meet current emissions standards. It ran pig rich and could run on almost anything because of it. Carbureted power equipment is hit harder by ethanol than almost any other product. Fuel used for emissions testing burns similar to straight gasoline. It is a constant balancing act to tune an engine to meet emissions standards on cert fuel while keeping it running well on E10. Richening up the mixture to use E15 will cause some engines to fail emissions standards. Running an engine designed for a maximum of E10 on E15 may cause performance problems and possibly even engine damage. Switching to a colder plug may help, but you can't recommend that unless you choose to certify your engine with both spark plugs. EPA and CARB regulations have also eliminated the adjustments from carburetors. Even the tamper resistant caps that could be pried off the adjustment screws are a thing of the past. Go ahead and use E15 in your power equipment. Even if you take the proper precautions to prevent fuel decomposition and water contamination, running an engine on E15 that wasn't designed for it may cause damage. When that day comes, keep on chuckling while you write the check for repairs or parts. Moving forward, closed loop fuel injection systems could cure this, but it won't me cheap. Do you know anyone who wants to pay $1000 for a consumer walk behind mower.

There is an alternative, but the politicians won't touch it. If ethanol wasn't such a politically charged item, we could scrap it and run a higher percentage of isobutanol while having equivalent performance to E10. Converting ethanol plants into isobutanol plants is feasible and we'd have a better fuel supply in the country.

1) Have you ever heard the Nursery Tale of Chicken Little.

2) Where do you think the money for the development of Isobutanol came from?

http://cfpub.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts...display.abstractDetail/abstract/8958/report/0

DOE ARPA-E

US Air Force & Navy alternate fuel programs

Even the bad old USDA

Just Google GEVO or BioFuel and you'll find lots of info.

Isobutanol appears to be the most promising of the BioFuel's.
 
1) Have you ever heard the Nursery Tale of Chicken Little.

Sure - but what point are you trying to make?

E10 has caused people's poor fuel storage habbits to come back and bite them in many cases. The things you could get away with when dealing with straight gasoline, lead to failures with E10. E15 will make this issue worse. There are engines which will run poorly and and some may be damaged on E15. I'm not saying it is the end of the world, but it will cause issues with some existing engines. Also, continuing to increase ethanol in pump fuel without making a corresponding chemistry change in certification fuel while decreasing the allowable exhaust emissions will lead to increased product costs. Eventually, we will be looking at closed loop fuel injection on a walk behind mower and the corresponding price.
 
decreasing the allowable exhaust emissions will lead to increased product costs. Eventually, we will be looking at closed loop fuel injection on a walk behind mower and the corresponding price.

Trust me. some smart domestic or foreign folks will make a product that Walmart will sell you at a price that matches the size of your wallet. Today, most all walk behind mowers are made by MTD or Basco (Snapper). In the case of MTD, they contract manufacture for several brands beyond their own in-house brands. I can buy the same product from Deere, Husqvarna (Electrolux), Cadet and in many cases, on cheaper stuff, Craftsman. Typically, you can buy either a Honda or Briggs engine on the same deck, just by switching brand names.

Not that the Briggs engines aren't good, but I doubt that the Honda engineers will have any problems meeting the challenge of a new fuel blend. Remember the CVCC engine........it was impressive and was found in a relatively cheap car.
 
I have several old motorcycles, and lawn equipment like most of you. And because ethanol wrecks old carbs plastic floats, fuel lines, collects water and other probblems, I use race gas or aircraft gas in my old bikes and lawn equipment.

I know it a availability issue with some and cost as well, but Amal floats are $35 each and some not available at any price.

The newer fuel injected cars and motorcycles seen to have fewer issues, but at 15% some vehicles may not run well at all, it makes them run very lean, not good for the air cooled ones.

Just my 2 cents, I don't know what there is to do about it, the corn lobby is very strong.
 
Ethanol

To anyone in or about, or passing through Chambersburg Pa , the Gulf station at the intersection of Wayne Ave and Exit 14 of I81 has an ethanol free pump. Yes, it costs more. Really anxious to try it in the bikes.
 
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