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Thoughts on life in Germany

One of the biggest stereotypes about Germany.
Most certainly because of our past and the history of the Nazi regime. Any other country can do certain things to protect and nourish their national pride but only the Germans are being accused of being "nationalists".
The French uphold their language to an extend that it makes it impossible for a foreigner to even try to speak it. And how about that country where the spectators sing the national anthem before the start of any sports event?

No prejudice, slander, or any ill meant by my statement. I assure you that the "past, and history of the Nazi regime" was THE farthest thing from my mind. I honestly do not think that way. I applaud any place that tries to maintain aspects of its individuality and/or uniqueness. Yes, I did use the word "nationalist"... I actually meant it as a GOOD thing.
I, in no way, meant to cause ill will or offense. If you did take offense to my statement, I sincerely offer my apologies.

Any way, Jeff- good luck in your efforts to get an assignment over there! If I could go live in Germany, I would- in a heart beat.
 
Ok I need to jump in here as a military spouse, wife of AKBeemer...for some people there is a definite culture shock. And for some that translates into a type of fear...language being the chief barrier. Kids usually have no problems with this and pick up the language quickly. Adults just need to relax and be willing to laugh at themselves when they screw up. Everyone understands a smile and an apology, and it does not matter the language it is delivered in if genuine.
If given the chance I would go back in a heartbeat. The different opportunities for travel, the museums, the food, the people ....all fantastic! What an education. I hope you and your family take full advantage of this opportunity!
 
N I, in no way, meant to cause ill will or offense. If you did take offense to my statement, I sincerely offer my apologies.

.

No offense taken and no apologies necessary. I just wanted to add another point of view based on your statement. And it is a fact that many (younger) people in Europe feel that the French are more nationalistic than the Germans.
 
That is, the real economy is too expensive for those working for USA government paychecks.

Not every American in Germany is an enlisted serviceman. US technical and management salaries (even in the GS world) usually exceed those of the Germans. Yes, the cost of living is more expensive, but so is any US metropolitan area versus the rural areas where I live............
 
I may have an opportunity to go to Germany myself- tho perhaps briefly.

A friend of mine, whom I know from BritBike.com forum, emailed to ask If I want to fly into Hamburg, and go with him into Sweden for a big old style hot rod meet (A-Bombers Rally) then continue on to Norway for the International BSA rally, 8/3-8/10!

We would truck bikes along, him with his BSA and me on his 79 Yamaha XT 500. Also we'd plan a stop in Gothenburg to see another mutual buddy.
 
Do it. I was born there as my father was military (Army) and mom is German. I was born in Fulda, went to school and graduated from W?rzburg American High School. That was in 1982. I lived there until I was not a dependent of my parents of the age of 24, with that said, if I had the opportunity to go back I would. Last tim I was there was in 1995 and would love to go back, maybe when I would retire. I remember the food and driving was awesome. You also have the opportunity to visit neighboring countries and I still remember those growing up. Remember we regret the things that we don't do, never the things we do, that is how I justified riding to Alaska. :)
 
. US technical and management salaries (even in the GS world) usually exceed those of the Germans. ............

I strongly disagree. I work for a German company in the U.S. in a management position. I know the salary levels of both the U.S. and German employees. If you convert the gross salaries in Germany into U.S. Dollars at the current exchange rate, the German levels are approx 25% higher. The take-home pay is less in Germany because of higher taxes.
 
I strongly disagree. I work for a German company in the U.S. in a management position. I know the salary levels of both the U.S. and German employees. If you convert the gross salaries in Germany into U.S. Dollars at the current exchange rate, the German levels are approx 25% higher. The take-home pay is less in Germany because of higher taxes.

And, that is why the German company outsources production to lower cost countries like the US and Brazil. As a case in point, the BMW plant wasn't built in SC so they could pay UAW wages.

But, please recall, US industry includes commercial and non-commercial industries. You have to consider the salary levels of both types of industry. And, yes, depending on how you slice it on the accounting of mandatory and non-mandatory fringe benefits, the burden cost of German employee could be higher. However, I can still remember when employment by a major US manufacturer meant free health insurance and no-cost pension that amounted to 40~50% final salary after 40-yrs of service. Today, both the health insurance (at least in part) and the pension (likely all) costs are borne by the employee in their take home pay. But, that is a really sad issue for other discussions.
 
And, that is why the German company outsources production to lower cost countries like the US and Brazil. As a case in point, the BMW plant wasn't built in SC so they could pay UAW wages.

But, please recall, US industry includes commercial and non-commercial industries. You have to consider the salary levels of both types of industry. And, yes, depending on how you slice it on the accounting of mandatory and non-mandatory fringe benefits, the burden cost of German employee could be higher. However, I can still remember when employment by a major US manufacturer meant free health insurance and no-cost pension that amounted to 40~50% final salary after 40-yrs of service. Today, both the health insurance (at least in part) and the pension (likely all) costs are borne by the employee in their take home pay. But, that is a really sad issue for other discussions.

The issue of relocation of a manufacturing plant to the site of market of the product is a very complex one and not only driven by direct production cost. Logistics, market specific, unique product variations and availability of key product components and last not least currency considerations are very important. The biggest argument for retaining the original production site is productivity. We are going through this right now.

I am not sure if I understand your argument in the second part. Yes, cost of fringe benefits is also higher in Germany, but that doesn't really have an affect on the comparison of pay levels. You said before, that


US technical and management salaries (even in the GS world) usually exceed those of the Germans.

I can't see that.

While we are discussing all of these issues and may have different opinions and viewpoints, we all agree that if Jeff is in a stage of his life that will allow him to take the assignment, he should do it!
 
I am not sure if I understand your argument in the second part. Yes, cost of fringe benefits is also higher in Germany, but that doesn't really have an affect on the comparison of pay levels.

Fringe benefits and pay are the total compensation for an employee. If you get fewer fringe benefits and the same pay, you're working for a lower cost.
 
While we are discussing all of these issues and may have different opinions and viewpoints, we all agree that if Jeff is in a stage of his life that will allow him to take the assignment, he should do it!

On that issue we are in complete agreement. Relative to our other discussion, I doubt that we really have a disagreement.
 
Fringe benefits and pay are the total compensation for an employee. If you get fewer fringe benefits and the same pay, you're working for a lower cost.

That's of interest for the employer but not for the employee. Take-home-pay is what counts if you have to decide where you want to work. That's why I couldn't fit it into the argument.
 
I couldn't disagree more. You're total pay package is the dollars they give you and the value of the fringe benefits.

Scenario 1: They give you $100,000/year and a fringe benefit package of $35,000.-. You pay $55,000 in taxes

Scenario 2: They give you $100,000/year and a fringe benefit package of $20,000.- You pay $28,000 in taxes.

You go for job 1, I go for job 2!:dance
 
Scenario 1: They give you $100,000/year and a fringe benefit package of $35,000.-. You pay $55,000 in taxes

Scenario 2: They give you $100,000/year and a fringe benefit package of $20,000.- You pay $28,000 in taxes.

You go for job 1, I go for job 2!:dance

I go for the job and location that provides the best quality of life. As such, I'll consider the salary, fringe, taxes and living expenses as a package.
 
I go for the job and location that provides the best quality of life. As such, I'll consider the salary, fringe, taxes and living expenses as a package.

Then you would definitely NOT go to Germany! Not now anymore.
 
In my admittedly limited experience...

If you get the chance to go somewhere that people do not do it the same way we do it, GO THERE AND LEARN!!!!!!! It will expand your mind as well as that of your family. Different ways of thinking lead to creative ways of thinking and you will be able to develop a more creative way of life as a result. Having some German blood, I can tell you that while well recommended as it is, you will find some aspects of German life/thinking which are seriously in need of a rethink and your American prospective will serve you well. Last and most importantly not least, your kids will internalize the fact that ours is not the only way to solve a problem and they will flourish compared to their "American Only" peers.

Best of luck in your adventure!

Regards,

Will
 
Back that up, please.

He is looking for the "best quality of life". I am saying that Germany is not the place he'll find it. I am constantly comparing Germany (which is the country of my birth and citizenship) with other countries , like the U.S. (residence), Canada (business travel) and Italy (favorite regular vacation spot), for example, and I can definitely say, considering income, taxes, benefits, cost of living, real estate, Germany is NOT the place I would want to live right now.
Taking a temporary assignment and experiencing a different culture and country is a different issue and I would recommend to anybody who has the chance to do it.
 
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