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Question for Mr. Voni

akbeemer

SURVIVOR
In the recent article in ON I noticed that you changed brake fluid on average every third service. I'm figuring that equates to every 15 to 18K miles. Have I miscalculated? Is this really necessary? Are women in red particularly hard on brake fluid? :dunno
 
In the recent article in ON I noticed that you changed brake fluid on average every third service. I'm figuring that equates to every 15 to 18K miles. Have I miscalculated? Is this really necessary? Are women in red particularly hard on brake fluid? :dunno

I try to do it once a year - in the fall. The older bikes had that as an "annual maintenance" task. I think - I'm not sure - that on newest models BMW now says every two years, but that change might have been for coolant. Once a year is my norm.
 
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This link (bmwmc.net, pdf file) was just sent to me this morning by someone who had a question about brake bleeds. Short version:

rubber brake lines: every year
Stahlflex brake lines: every 2 years
 
I think - I'm not sure - that on newest models BMW now days every two years, but that change might have been for coolant. Once a year is my norm.

The 2006 edition of the BMW Motorrad R12R Maintenance Schedule shows brake fluid replacement at two year intervals:
 

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:confused:

When do they self-destruct?

Apparently, after two years. Seems ridiculously short time. Seems self-serving desire to sell more products.

All this IMHO, of course. Still, what could possibly be the reason for replacement after two years? Have never had to replace braided brake line, have you had to replace them?
 
Apparently, after two years. Seems ridiculously short time. Seems self-serving desire to sell more products.

All this IMHO, of course. Still, what could possibly be the reason for replacement after two years? Have never had to replace braided brake line, have you had to replace them?

Replace the brake fluid, not the brake lines.
 
Apparently, after two years. Seems ridiculously short time. Seems self-serving desire to sell more products.

All this IMHO, of course. Still, what could possibly be the reason for replacement after two years? Have never had to replace braided brake line, have you had to replace them?

Perhaps I was a bit too succinct in my short version. How about this:

Replace the fluid every year if you have the rubber lines.
Replace the fluid every two years if you have the Stahlflex brake lines.

As for self destructing... The ones the came stock on my '05 GS are still going strong. Brake line failures haven't exactly been a big issue from what I read here. I don't remember reading of any, come to think of it.
 
Clearly, i did not read the post carefully enough. Brain seized on brake line and never considered the line supplier was recommending a fluid change interval.

Technical reading skills need to be learned and then practiced. Seems i slipped on the latter.

Same with technical writing. We all need to be careful in providing adequate detail to try to prevent half-asleep readers going off on an unintended direction, as i obviously did.
 
As for self destructing... The ones the came stock on my '05 GS are still going strong. Brake line failures haven't exactly been a big issue from what I read here. I don't remember reading of any, come to think of it.

if your stock brake lines are not SS, they most definitely will self-destruct. die a slow death from old age, actually- but they certainly have a finite life span. AndyVH will likely chime in with more specifics as to process and causation- but it is a mistake to think that rubber lines will last forever.
 
if your stock brake lines are not SS, they most definitely will self-destruct. die a slow death from old age, actually- but they certainly have a finite life span. AndyVH will likely chime in with more specifics as to process and causation- but it is a mistake to think that rubber lines will last forever.

It is also a mistake to believe that "stainless braided" brake lines will last forever. Some will fail sooner than others, depending on how they are made. Some have a rubber lining, a stiffener, and a braided outer sheath. The rubber can still fail. It won't likely pop and spew, but it can swell internally and rubber bits can slough off clogging things.
 
OK, now I've been on a brake fluid change frenzie. Guess I've neglected this a bit. Three of five bikes done. Only the rear of Annie's thumper looked bad; sorta like day old Army coffee.
 
It is also a mistake to believe that "stainless braided" brake lines will last forever. Some will fail sooner than others, depending on how they are made. Some have a rubber lining, a stiffener, and a braided outer sheath. The rubber can still fail. It won't likely pop and spew, but it can swell internally and rubber bits can slough off clogging things.

That's why, if you are going to put stainless lines on your bike, make sure they are the more rigid teflon lined style.




:dance:dance:dance
 
OK, now I've been on a brake fluid change frenzie. Guess I've neglected this a bit. Three of five bikes done. Only the rear of Annie's thumper looked bad; sorta like day old Army coffee.

Ouch!

The appearance of weak apple juice is about as dark as I like to see it. But you didn't say chocolate syrup, at least.
 
I use Ate Super Blue Racing brake fluid in all my bikes, cars, and race car.

I use it in the race car because it has one of the highest dry boiling points of any readily available reasonably priced Dot 4 brake fluids.

But I use it in the bikes and cars because it has the highest WET boiling point.

Wet boiling point is the reason that you must change brake fluid so often. Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water. Water boils at 212 degrees. Moisture in brake fluid dramatically reduces the boiling point of the fluid. A higher wet boiling point is a higher margin of safety in fluid that is approaching (or past) its change interval. Ate suggests a longer change interval because of the extra margin.

The other reason I like this fluid is because they make an identical fluid in amber color called Type 200. When you do changes you alternate between the blue and the amber. That way you know when you have completely flushed the system.

It is available at many auto parts store (though some may have to special order the type 200).

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/accessoryDetail.jsp?ID=21




:dance:dance:dance
 
if your stock brake lines are not SS, they most definitely will self-destruct. die a slow death from old age, actually- but they certainly have a finite life span. AndyVH will likely chime in with more specifics as to process and causation- but it is a mistake to think that rubber lines will last forever.

That is also true of the older SS lines. But... the stock Stahlflex lines on my bike have a PTFE inner, stainless mid, and a some kind of clear plastic outer covering. Certainly, they have a finite life span, but longer than the older stainless covered rubber lines.

When I flush the system (approx every 2 years) the fluid coming out looks exactly the same as the fluid going in. I really need to find a different color brake fluid. :deal Maybe that ATE stuff mentioned above. The brake lines look good from an external inspection point of view, too.
 
One thing worth mentioning about ATE Super Blue brake fluid is that it will turn plastic
brake reservoirs, and vacuum brake bleeder canisters blue, the color of the fluid.
No big deal but if you later switch to a fluid thats lighter in color, it might make it
harder to see the fluid level.
 
One thing worth mentioning about ATE Super Blue brake fluid is that it will turn plastic
brake reservoirs, and vacuum brake bleeder canisters blue, the color of the fluid.
No big deal but if you later switch to a fluid thats lighter in color, it might make it
harder to see the fluid level.

Has not happened in six years on 3 different K75Ss. Not even a hint. The reservoirs are like new inside.:dunno

Might be different plastic on your model bike. Which bikes have you had this experience with?

Or the fact that I alternate colors might clean the blue off before it permanently stains it.




:dance:dance:dance
 
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