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Tier 1 Gasoline

Lots of missing the point here.

Yes, the gas is all the same, and various companies do indeed add their additive package.

BUT, it's the additive package that makes the gas "top tier," so the fact the base gas is the same isn't really so relevant.

The exposes, lawsuits, etc., would already have happened if the additives weren't being added as advertised.

Who wants to spend money on some high dollar testing?...My dad was in the Petro Inspection business ( middlemen for seller/buyer to assure the product loaded was the product delivered) for over 40 years and I used to hang out in the lab...not a cheap process I would imagine for verification of blended gasolines.
You just trust the big boys to do the right thing....and have a gut feeling they really are not. And the few stations that offer three blends of fuel when there are only two storage tanks. The pump is blending the reg/premium to give you midgrade....never trusted that to be happening.
 
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"Right, but what I'm saying is that this additive package is irrelevant once it goes to tankage. At the blending terminal I work at the product is not fungible, each customer has a different tank and blends according to their specs, however once it's blended and gets a CofA (certificate of analysis) it gets put into tankage with various other brands that may have been blended differently and then trucked out. The CofA is what makes the product fungible and trust me, the additives are there during blend, but once they reach the pump, you're not getting additives specific to any brand"

So where does Texico Techron and Shell V-Power(nitrogen enriched) come into play?
 
It's been about 40 years since I worked in petroleum distribution, and the biz has changed a lot in those years. D'oh! As mentioned by several posters, the base stock is the same, it's the additives that make the difference. Anecdotal information only, but my '98 F-150 has 195,000 miles on it...One new set of plugs and injectors cleaned at 115K. A Ford mechanic friend tells me most F-150's of this vintage need new plugs and injector cleaning around 70 to 90K. He only uses Chevron in his vehicles, I've been doing the same thing for about 25 years. And since the Chevron/Texaco merger I use Texaco too.

Unlike other areas of the country, around here we do see some "branded" gas tankers, but only Chevron and ARCO. The other gas stations get deliveries by independant tanker trucks. I buy most of my gas from high volume outlets, and so far (knock on wood) I've not had any fuel related problems...

I use marine grade Sta-Bil in my portable generator, and lawn machine supplies. Add the same stuff when I put my bike into winter storage. I am a bit ticked off with the ethanol content of 'modern' fuels, in a habit of checking tank mileage every time I fuel up any of our rigs, and can always tell when they've blended that damned ethanol in the gas. Seems to be when the price goes up, so does the ethanol content, and that of course reduces mileage, so the ethanol stuff is sort of a double whammy.

Okay, I'll now exit the soap box... :violin

Cheers!

PS. I worked for ARCO many years...and avoid their gasoline products. LOL
 
One "actual" gas for everybody????!!!

Its SOCIALISM I tells ya, SOCIALISM!!

What's this world comin to if a feller can't buy Shell gas an expect it to BE Shell Gas!

Dagnabbit! I'm movin ta Floreeda, pull my pants dang near up to my chest an sit around ta complain bout da Gov'mint.

Um,...kinda tongue in cheek there. But really, given that gas prices are nearly the same almost at any vendor in your area, it being a commodity these days like water almost, not hard to imagine its all the same product with different names.
 
Who wants to spend money on some high dollar testing?...My dad was in the Petro Inspection business ( middlemen for seller/buyer to assure the product loaded was the product delivered) for over 40 years and I used to hang out in the lab...not a cheap process I would imagine for verifiacation of blended gasolines.
You just trust the big boys to do the right thing....and have a gut feeling they really are not. And the few stations that offer three blends of fuel when there are only two storage tanks. The pump is blending the reg/premium to give you midgrade....never trusted that to be happening.

When I worked on the pipeline we had a lab and had to test the product when it came in to ensure that the specs matched what was indicated on the CofA, this meant testing for octane (we actually added ethanol to the samples to test post blending), sulfur, benzene, VOC, RVP, oxygenates, aromatics, and olefins, you also had to match the API gravity (density) to the tank sample that was on the CofA so that you knew the product you were receiving came from the tank that was sampled on the other end.

At the terminal I currently work at they pay labs and samplers so unfortunately I don't have access to that equipment anymore.

So where does Texico Techron and Shell V-Power(nitrogen enriched) come into play?

or BP invigorate? Motiva (http://www.motivaenterprises.com/) is essentially Royal Dutch Shell in my area of the country and we dealt with them on the pipeline side. Again, their "formulated" gas went into the same tankage with the rest and was also bought by other customers such as Hess and BP for distribution.

Unlike other areas of the country, around here we do see some "branded" gas tankers, but only Chevron and ARCO. The other gas stations get deliveries by independant tanker trucks. I buy most of my gas from high volume outlets, and so far (knock on wood) I've not had any fuel related problems...

Next to the terminal I currently work at is a BP terminal that has BP branded trucks. I know we have done custody transfers to this terminal, meaning the product they are buying to load to the trucks is another company's product. As mentioned earlier there are also Conoco Phillips and Hess refineries in my immediate area and you find independent trucking companies loading at their truck racks and making deliveries to a variety of gas stations. There aren't any Conoco stations in NJ btw.
 
It sounds like a good deal fro the consumer. Just go for the cheapest gas in your area. It's got some Shell nitrogen along with some Teshron and bit of this and that. It's all good:dunno
 
Dagnabbit! I'm movin ta Floreeda, pull my pants dang near up to my chest an sit around ta complain bout da Gov'mint.

made me laugh and think of this!

Since nothing really will ever be done with the system as it seems to be,without talkin' the P word here EXXONMOBILTEXACOSHELLARCOBPSUNOCO Inc will continue to get in our pockets and our tanks if we want to enjoy the road
 

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Yeah, for all the complaining about 10% Ethanol blended gas, at least we have plenty of it, easily available, cheapest in the major economies, and we still get to enjoy our internal combustion soul movers for years to come.

Electric bikes "may" be more powerful, instant torque and all, but they'll never have the soundtrack to go with the power.

Aww, screw it, I'm still gonna pull my pants up to my nipples and complain about the government!
 
It sounds like a good deal fro the consumer. Just go for the cheapest gas in your area. It's got some Shell nitrogen along with some Teshron and bit of this and that. It's all good:dunno

Ok, my local car dealership wants to put nitrogen in my tires. If I buy gas shocks, I can get nitrogen in them. Shell or BP wants to sell me gas with nitrogen. If I buy a Guinness pint, they'll use nitrogen to pressurize the keg.


Only one (ok, maybe two) of the four is really improved if you use nitrogen.
 
I understand what you mean though, the current practice of gas storage would be like taking wine from a variety of producers, mixing it and then just selling it as wine instead of specifically by field or grower which I'd say is unethical, but surprise, oil companies tend not to share the same ethical standards as the rest of us

Have you tried the house wine at Trader Joe's............pretty good and cheap..........because it's blended from surplus. Of course, I'm a beer drinker so my wine standards are a bit on the modest level.

Sometimes, living off the scrap pile isn't so bad..........:)
 
Hey typ181R90, I think I now understand whats going on, as I now remember how we used to see Tony Soprano driving by your workplace/terminal.:laugh
I thought of this discussion when in the shop yesterday & heard a NASCAR driver advertising how not only did he use ethanol in his race car it was great for his family car too! Guess that settles the whole thing?:dunno
 
Ok, my local car dealership wants to put nitrogen in my tires. If I buy gas shocks, I can get nitrogen in them. Shell or BP wants to sell me gas with nitrogen. If I buy a Guinness pint, they'll use nitrogen to pressurize the keg.


Only one (ok, maybe two) of the four is really improved if you use nitrogen.

And this bit of info...glad Shell is helping out by adding MORE:laugh

I have seen the Nitrogen air pumps at a Honda shop recently...paying for what already is 80% or so naturally there? :dunno

Plucked from this site:
http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM107/AirWeBreathe/Comp/AirComposition.html

NITROGEN goes bad: Under high temperatures, like in a jet engine or car engine, nitrogen will combine with oxygen to form a class of toxic compounds called nitrogen oxides. The simplest having one nitrogen and one oxygen (NO). Others have two nitrogens and one oxygen (N2O), one nitrogen and two oxygens (NO2), and the fourth has two of each (N2O2). Their names (in order) are nitrogen oxide, dinitrogen oxide, nitrogen dioxide, and dinitrogen dioxide. Nitrogen dioxide has a brownish appearance and is often what you see in polluted cities.

One Last Look at Compostion of Air: Imagine the volume of air in a typical classroom that is 30 feet by 30 feet with a 10 foot high ceiling. Also assume, we separated all the gases. Oxygen would cover the room to about 2 feet deep. Nitrogen would fill almost to the ceiling (another 8 feet minus a couple of inches). Argon gas would fill a one inch layer over the whole room. The remaining gases fill the last one inch. Carbon dioxide has about the same volume of one student. Neon is 1.5 gallons. Helium would fill a one liter bottle. Methane gas would fill someone's 1/2 liter bottle. Krypton would fill a 12 oz soda can. Hydrogen would fill about half of a 12 oz soda can. And xenon gas would have the volume of a pencil's eraser.
 
And this bit of info...glad Shell is helping out by adding MORE:laugh

I have seen the Nitrogen air pumps at a Honda shop recently...paying for what already is 80% or so naturally there? :dunno


NITROGEN goes bad: ...................

I'm doing my part..........

1) Even I wait to meet the person that gets the nitrogen gas service for their tires. They have to be special in many ways.
2) The BP station switched brands, so that dilemma is gone
3) The gas struts on my cars trunk lid haven't worked in years

but,

I can't give-up on the Guinness.................
 
I'm going to buy up stock in nitrogen-producing companies. It's clearly the wave of the future.

And henzilla wrote: "Carbon Dioxide has about the same volume as one student." I think I had that student in class. Several, in fact. :scratch

pete
 
Hey typ181R90, I think I now understand whats going on, as I now remember how we used to see Tony Soprano driving by your workplace/terminal.:laugh
I thought of this discussion when in the shop yesterday & heard a NASCAR driver advertising how not only did he use ethanol in his race car it was great for his family car too! Guess that settles the whole thing?:dunno

well that covers two out of four sources of info- TV and Radio. now all we need is a book extolling the benefits of ethanol in gasoline and a couple positive internet articles...
and we're set! :scratch

hey! *they* wouldn't lie to us.... :usa


would they? :dunno
 
It does concern me that in a number of states gasoline is found under the category of agriculture. :laugh

That has always been as strange as the Railroad Commissions role in the oil business in TX. :confused: The Ag oversight of fuel fits better now with corn fuel than it did years ago!
 
That has always been as strange as the Railroad Commissions role in the oil business in TX. :confused: The Ag oversight of fuel fits better now with corn fuel than it did years ago!

Railroads and oil..............it's a natural fit.

Rockefeller found that out
 
Most places I've been the price difference for name brand gas and discount gas is two cents. That's about a dime a motorcycle fill up. For a dime I'll go first class even if it's not a sure difference.

From what I read the Top Tier idea came from auto manufacturers who were having problems dealing with early design gummed up fuel injection systems under warranty. They determined that federal requirements for detergents in gasoline were too low. The Top Tier companies agree to use adequate levels of additives. That's worth two cents a gallon to me.

As recently as a couple years ago Exxon-Mobil did not participate in the program. Now they do.
 
I have said this many a time about my 94RS, in 17 years and 164K of riding it I have not had ONE single fuel related issue. Still on the original untouched injectors, fuel pump, fuel regulator, only one fuel filter, bike runs great all the time.

Maybe it is because I tend to stick to the bigger name brands and their mixes of additives. Maybe its because I use at least two bottles of Chevron Techron through the fuel system per 10K of miles. Dunno, but I have seen a lot more bikes in the shop at Nick's BMW with fuel related problems and gummed up fuel systems.

Of course, regularly riding the bike makes a big difference too.
 
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