K1600GT and GTL Official Announcement

motodan · Aug 3, 2010

I can not imagine the problems this new 1600cc bike will have for the first 3 or 4 model years. And, as we know, it takes BMW that long to address any number of issues that crop up on new models.

I can only hope they go to a chain drive so people can buy with confidence in the "final drive" area of this new bike. I think they should use a clear window in the fuel tank, like the one for checking oil level, so fuel level will be easy to check and BMW won't have to spend more time and money on figuring out what's wrong with the fuel strips....God knows they've spent enough time on it.

Perhaps they'll take a little more time in routing brake lines so they won't have to recall bikes for that reason. Looks like EWS has been figured out and corrected. I think that took several tries and three years....or was it four?

Hopefully they won't resurrect the dash from the 90's R and K bikes that melted or something after a while (speedo needle went nuts or just died). They never really fixed that, just kept replacing them until they quit selling those bikes.

And please, go back to the cable clutches, slave cylinders are made to fail...that's what they do. By doing so, perhaps BMW can keep the new bike's price under $24,875 (oh sorry, that's without the $570.00 shipping charges....oh, and you wanted a comfort seat with that....that's an additional $420.00).

Can't wait till they add i-Drive from the car line....that'll be just great?

Yes, some of this is tongue-in-cheek, but oh so much truth here.

You Beta testers take heart, the rest of us will help you along with our comments after your purchase....and may God and a million caring mechanics follow you through the "valley" of new model BMW ownership.

milo · Aug 3, 2010

LOL Motodan

that pretty much covered it.

kbasa · Aug 3, 2010

I can't really agree with the 3 or 4 year waiting period.

I've got an R12RT and an R12GS that have both been bulletproof. I had a 99 R11S. My wife had a beta R11RS and a first year R1150R. They were all absolutely bulletproof.

Don't fall for the internet hysteria...

cjack · Aug 3, 2010

The new bikes have sometimes been more frustrating when they have issues because the (competent) owner is generally no longer able to repair them by his/her self. In the past, the issues almost never left you by the side of the road. Things are different now. Some of the simplest issues will kill the bike and require the service diagnostic computer to diagnose or repair. And require parts that are not generally found, nor can they be fabricated, in the field.
My wife and I have had numerous failures of various items on the 6 new BMWs that we purchased in the last 5 years. Some of them would have left us stranded on long trips, had I not part timed at a dealer and had the spare parts I knew to carry.
One funny failure my wife first had was the fuel strip. When it failed, the display started counting down the miles left...one mile a second. She asked me over the intercom if her bike would stop when the display read zero miles. I assured her that it would not. But it is kind of an example of the technology on these new bikes that will frustrate and even frighten the owner who usually doesn't have clue about how it works. Not so decades ago.

motodan · Aug 3, 2010

cjack said:
The new bikes have sometimes been more frustrating when they have issues because the (competent) owner is generally no longer able to repair them by his/her self. In the past, the issues almost never left you by the side of the road. Things are different now. Some of the simplest issues will kill the bike and require the service diagnostic computer to diagnose or repair. And require parts that are not generally found, nor can they be fabricated, in the field.

Right on...couldn't agree more.

mneblett · Aug 3, 2010

58209 said:
Don't fall for the internet hysteria...

+1

--

/counter-rant mode ON/

And don't fall for the naysayers that invariably come out of the woodwork at *every* new bike introduction to rant and rave about every real and/or perceived issue that has ever gone before (what, no complaints about the fragile kickstarter on the '74 5-speed tranny???), or to lay out yet another Luddite-tinged sermon on the evils of increased complexity and electronics.

My view: if you want to live a life focused on negativity, go pee in someone else's pool -- I *want* the benefits of this new technology, and I'm willing to put up with some occasional cuts to stay on the bleeding edge of technology.

The underlying premise of the prior rant that the K16 will be suffering all the problems of an entirely new clean sheet vehicle (not to mention every other problem that has gone before) is flawed: Take the K13 4 cyl, add two cylinders, rearrange a few bits and upgrade others (e.g., beefier FD), and add a few new features to the existing electronics and CANBUS technology: poof! K16.

The reality is there is every reason to believe that most of the clean-sheet project "bugs" of the current K-bikes have/will be worked out by the time the K16 comes out (do you really think the early K12 fuel injection mapping issues will be there in the K16?). And even if there are some issues with the new bike (and I expect there will at least a few), it's not the end of the world. The expectation that this, or *any* BMW motorcycle with be at or near 100% flawless when introduced or during the course of its life (apparently, the only acceptable standard for the "BMW is incompetent" commentators) is simply unrealistic -- not even Rolls-Royce or Bugatti are capable of performing to this standard. Yet there seems to be this compulsive need to chime in with a negative $0.02 for the sake of spoiling everyone else's day (yeah, I've heard the "we only do it to warn others" line -- BS -- this is not about helping others, it's about not being happy with *your* ownership experience, and raining on everyone else's parade because you're not happy).

And before anyone responds with the typical knee-jerk "you're a low-life company-justifying BMW-lover!" response: No, I'm not a KoolAid-sipper. BMWs absolutely have issues, just like every other bike. And while I *really* dislike BMW's refusal to *ever* publicly comment on a flaw (absent a gov't mandated recall campaign), frankly they are no different than most of the rest of the majors.

I don't expect perfection. I do expect BMW to stand behind the product when it isn't perfect. Over the course of 30 some years, they always have for me. I may hate the fact that they won't take public positions on problems, but every time I've raised an issue, they've responded.

SO, my $0.02 worth is if you ain't got something to say about the K16GT/GTL (note, I didn't say only *good* things -- just that they be directed to *this* bike), but instead just want a forum to continue a general venting of your spleen on BMW's lack of perfection, go find another sandbox.

/counter-rant mode OFF/

motodan · Aug 3, 2010

mneblett said:
+1 --

/counter-rant mode ON/

And don't fall for the naysayers that invariably come out of the woodwork at *every* new bike introduction to rant and rave about every real and/or perceived issue that has ever gone before (what, no complaints about the fragile kickstarter on the '74 5-speed tranny???), or to lay out yet another Luddite-tinged sermon on the evils of increased complexity and electronics.

My view: if you want to live a life focused on negativity, go pee in someone else's pool -- I *want* the benefits of this new technology, and I'm willing to put up with some occasional cuts to stay on the bleeding edge of technology.

The underlying premise of the prior rant that the K16 will be suffering all the problems of an entirely new clean sheet vehicle (not to mention every other problem that has gone before) is flawed: Take the K13 4 cyl, add two cylinders, rearrange a few bits and upgrade others (e.g., beefier FD), and add a few new features to the existing electronics and CANBUS technology: poof! K16.

The reality is there is every reason to believe that most of the clean-sheet project "bugs" of the current K-bikes have/will be worked out by the time the K16 comes out (do you really think the early K12 fuel injection mapping issues will be there in the K16?). And even if there are some issues with the new bike (and I expect there will at least a few), it's not the end of the world. The expectation that this, or *any* BMW motorcycle with be at or near 100% flawless when introduced or during the course of its life (apparently, the only acceptable standard for the "BMW is incompetent" commentators) is simply unrealistic -- not even Rolls-Royce or Bugatti are capable of performing to this standard. Yet there seems to be this compulsive need to chime in with a negative $0.02 for the sake of spoiling everyone else's day (yeah, I've heard the "we only do it to warn others" line -- BS -- this is not about helping others, it's about not being happy with *your* ownership experience, and raining on everyone else's parade because you're not happy).

And before anyone responds with the typical knee-jerk "you're a low-life company-justifying BMW-lover!" response: No, I'm not a KoolAid-sipper. BMWs absolutely have issues, just like every other bike. And while I *really* dislike BMW's refusal to *ever* publicly comment on a flaw (absent a gov't mandated recall campaign), frankly they are no different than most of the rest of the majors.

I don't expect perfection. I do expect BMW to stand behind the product when it isn't perfect. Over the course of 30 some years, they always have for me. I may hate the fact that they won't take public positions on problems, but every time I've raised an issue, they've responded.

SO, my $0.02 worth is if you ain't got something to say about the K16GT/GTL (note, I didn't say only *good* things -- just that they be directed to *this* bike), but instead just want a forum to continue a general venting of your spleen on BMW's lack of perfection, go find another sandbox.

/counter-rant mode OFF/

If one classifies my comments as a rant, at least classify it as a rant against the machine and the processes used in building and servicing it, not a rant against a person making a statement. Hey, I sell these things and all the Japan units....I can tell you BMW does not add 30 to 60% value to their machines, but they do ask that much more for their models over the competition. By doing so, I think it is reasonable to demand more from the Great Legendary Motorcycle maker.

I thought this was the essence of a forum...to write an opinion or thought. Didn't know some folks don't want you to do that unless the comment makes someone else's day more positive.

I really don't care what happens with the 1600cc bike or the 2017 1873cc bike or any unit anyone produces. However, forums are for comments by all and from all perspectives. So put you rain coat on because you're going to get some pee coming your way....and don't blame the ureter....it's the kidney's fault. And remember, you only have 15 units of blood to let, so don't wish for too much more technology.

Motorwerk · Aug 3, 2010

Motodan said:
I can not imagine the problems this new 1600cc bike will have for the first 3 or 4 model years. And, as we know, it takes BMW that long to address any number of issues that crop up on new models.

I can only hope they go to a chain drive so people can buy with confidence in the "final drive" area of this new bike. I think they should use a clear window in the fuel tank, like the one for checking oil level, so fuel level will be easy to check and BMW won't have to spend more time and money on figuring out what's wrong with the fuel strips....God knows they've spent enough time on it.

Perhaps they'll take a little more time in routing brake lines so they won't have to recall bikes for that reason. Looks like EWS has been figured out and corrected. I think that took several tries and three years....or was it four?

Hopefully they won't resurrect the dash from the 90's R and K bikes that melted or something after a while (speedo needle went nuts or just died). They never really fixed that, just kept replacing them until they quit selling those bikes.

And please, go back to the cable clutches, slave cylinders are made to fail...that's what they do. By doing so, perhaps BMW can keep the new bike's price under $24,875 (oh sorry, that's without the $570.00 shipping charges....oh, and you wanted a comfort seat with that....that's an additional $420.00).

Can't wait till they add i-Drive from the car line....that'll be just great?

Yes, some of this is tongue-in-cheek, but oh so much truth here.

You Beta testers take heart, the rest of us will help you along with our comments after your purchase....and may God and a million caring mechanics follow you through the "valley" of new model BMW ownership.

You missed the ESA and temperature inaccuracy issues. A temperate gauge, really?

The learning experience and correction process is somewhat understandable but given more product testing these issues could have been exposed. What's worse is the lack of support given to the dealers when it comes time to address these issues. Face it, most of the current information comes from forums like these. The information coming from the dealerships is sometimes at best incomplete. We still can't decide which final drive oil is the correct viscosity.

Sad really. Especially, with a so-called premium product.

I guess we need to remember, as passionate as we can be, is that this is a niche market and a secondary business for BMW.

You only need to look to the GT experience to be discouraged; engine stalling, airbox, multiple engine remaps, re-remaps, brake fluid reservoir foaming, left and right switch-gear replacements along with all the shared issues.
Given all the growing pains with nearly every recent model release, my RT will most likely be the one and only new model purchase. I refuse to be a beta tester while paying a production premium especially one that touts itself as the best. I don't deny they can make a premium product, it just takes them multiple tries to produce it.

cjack · Aug 4, 2010

As to the final drive oil, one thing about oils is that everybody has/is an expert on oil.
BMW did come out with a bulletin, as well as the maintenance DVD for dealers, about the final drive and the proper oil for it. It is 75W90 synthetic. Many dealers and techs seem to be oil experts and for whatever reason, come up with all sorts of variations from what the manufacturer has said from the beginning of this new drive and in the subsequent bulletins.
And while I'm at it...the recommended oil for the new wedge 4 cylinder engines is 5W40 synthetic and rated JASO-MA for wet clutches which says that no friction modifiers are used. There are several sources for this oil, BMW ($), Castrol 4t (less $), and Spectro. I have used this new lighter weight in all kinds of weather in the K1200Ses since the bulletin came out from 'BMW specifying it a couple years ago. No issues, nothing on the drain magnet, no oil consumption, and I think my clutch is better for it.

RTKOLENDA · Aug 10, 2010

mneblett said:
+1 --

/counter-rant mode ON/

And don't fall for the naysayers that invariably come out of the woodwork at *every* new bike introduction to rant and rave about every real and/or perceived issue that has ever gone before (what, no complaints about the fragile kickstarter on the '74 5-speed tranny???), or to lay out yet another Luddite-tinged sermon on the evils of increased complexity and electronics.

My view: if you want to live a life focused on negativity, go pee in someone else's pool -- I *want* the benefits of this new technology, and I'm willing to put up with some occasional cuts to stay on the bleeding edge of technology.

The underlying premise of the prior rant that the K16 will be suffering all the problems of an entirely new clean sheet vehicle (not to mention every other problem that has gone before) is flawed: Take the K13 4 cyl, add two cylinders, rearrange a few bits and upgrade others (e.g., beefier FD), and add a few new features to the existing electronics and CANBUS technology: poof! K16.

The reality is there is every reason to believe that most of the clean-sheet project "bugs" of the current K-bikes have/will be worked out by the time the K16 comes out (do you really think the early K12 fuel injection mapping issues will be there in the K16?). And even if there are some issues with the new bike (and I expect there will at least a few), it's not the end of the world. The expectation that this, or *any* BMW motorcycle with be at or near 100% flawless when introduced or during the course of its life (apparently, the only acceptable standard for the "BMW is incompetent" commentators) is simply unrealistic -- not even Rolls-Royce or Bugatti are capable of performing to this standard. Yet there seems to be this compulsive need to chime in with a negative $0.02 for the sake of spoiling everyone else's day (yeah, I've heard the "we only do it to warn others" line -- BS -- this is not about helping others, it's about not being happy with *your* ownership experience, and raining on everyone else's parade because you're not happy).

And before anyone responds with the typical knee-jerk "you're a low-life company-justifying BMW-lover!" response: No, I'm not a KoolAid-sipper. BMWs absolutely have issues, just like every other bike. And while I *really* dislike BMW's refusal to *ever* publicly comment on a flaw (absent a gov't mandated recall campaign), frankly they are no different than most of the rest of the majors.

I don't expect perfection. I do expect BMW to stand behind the product when it isn't perfect. Over the course of 30 some years, they always have for me. I may hate the fact that they won't take public positions on problems, but every time I've raised an issue, they've responded.

SO, my $0.02 worth is if you ain't got something to say about the K16GT/GTL (note, I didn't say only *good* things -- just that they be directed to *this* bike), but instead just want a forum to continue a general venting of your spleen on BMW's lack of perfection, go find another sandbox.

/counter-rant mode OFF/

I agree 1000%!! What an attitude! :violin

I have had 5 BMW's, two used and 3 New. I currently have over 125,000 miles on Beemers, 2 coast to coast trips, I have never, ever had to have any of my bikes adjusted for warranty, or any repairs done Peroid! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING!

Should I ever have to, I'll be fine with it, because every BMW shop I have been to has been Super freindly, and very helpful when it come to any service work I had done. If your rant :blah

is that important to you , my recommendation is to get out of BMW's go sit on a front porch, have a few beers, and watch us ride by. :wave

Gheeeeeeish!

Southerndude

motodan · Aug 10, 2010

rtkolenda said:
I agree 1000%!! What an attitude!

I have had 5 BMW's, two used and 3 New. I currently have over 125,000 miles on Beemers, 2 coast to coast trips, I have never, ever had to have any of my bikes adjusted for warranty, or any repairs done Peroid! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING!

Should I ever have to, I'll be fine with it, because every BMW shop I have been to has been Super freindly, and very helpful when it come to any service work I had done. If your rant is that important to you , my recommendation is to get out of BMW's go sit on a front porch, have a few beers, and watch us ride by. Gheeeeeeish!

Southerndude

Tell me which 5 models you've had and I'll send you the list of recalls you've missed. Just trying to help. And do go to one of those pollyannaish shops you've visited for the work....they are "super" friendly.

RTKOLENDA · Aug 10, 2010

Motodan said:
Tell me which 5 models you've had and I'll send you the list of recalls you've missed. Just trying to help. And do go to one of those pollyannaish shops you've visited for the work....they are "super" friendly.

I don't do a recall unless my bike has the problem or it is a serious saftey issue.
Also, if it needs to be done, I get it done at the dealer when I do the next service.
Don't need a list, I have Faith, and a Positive attitude about BMW's Motorcycles

1999 GS 650, 12,000miles-2001 R1150 GS, 39,000-2004 K1200 GT, 29,000
2006 R1200 GS, 41,000-2009 R1200 RT, 8,000 and counting! :german

Southerndude

EMSimon · Aug 11, 2010

The biggest problem I expect the new K16s to have will be the price tag. They will most likely run anywhere between $24,000.- and $30,000.- depending on package.

whistle

CATHDEAC · Aug 11, 2010

ima4nr said:
The biggest problem I expect the new K16s to have will be the price tag. They will most likely run anywhere between $24,000.- and $30,000.- depending on package.whistle

Great.. if that's so, there should be plenty to sit on at the dealerships... do you think they will add a "coin" option for "test rides"?

radar41 · Aug 22, 2010

K1600gtl

Going to throw my hat in this ring.

My K1200LT is getting long in the tooth - my wife and best riding partner, still enjoys riding with me. At 69 years of age (still in good shape and health) the LT is sometimes a bit heavy two up and loaded for touring. The LT has given us reliable service GO BMW!! Providing the GTL is lighter weight, as comfortable as the LT, with equal fuel economy and power, I'm in!!! :dance

Bottom line is: We have looked at and DON'T like the Harley, Goldwing, or other "V twin" tourers out there.

Kerrymcrider · Aug 22, 2010

K1600gt

I have read all the posts and there are a lot a good opinions pro and con about the new GT and GTL. At the heart of all this is a question regarding the various problems with BMW new models.

Like many of you I am a long time BMW owner (mid 1960's) and rider. The great thing about BMW is that if you invest in the bike for the long haul you are rewarded with a bike that performs and handles nearly the way it did when it left the factory. I feel that's as true today as it was decades ago.

However, at some point in the mid 80's or early 90's BMW decided to take a market position as the technology leader in motorcycles. Unfortunately great engineering and reliability do not necessarily go hand in hand. As a result, the complexity of new models continues to create customer service issues and all this while BMW was reducing the number of dealers to service them. Not a good combination.

My recommendation is document your problems and courteously let BMW NA know. Not your dealer and not a magazine this just creates more confusion for everyone involved. This is the only way to get the factory to focus on this very real issue.

Semper_Fi · Aug 23, 2010

Speaking to early adopters and technology vs. reliability - i have had all 3 major recalls on my GT and now the bike is just incredible in everything it does - and i am not just talking fast as that is a given.

I am talking about driveability, flexibilty and general day to day use - it is just phenomenal

Will the 1600 be like that - hope not - hope that they sorted it all out on the 1200/1300 platform - but you now are looking at a new engine, new lights and new user interface - some really big things - most of all I hope BMW has fixed their sourcing as some of their suppliers apparently cannot provide quality parts, but i am digressing - off the soap box and back to the 1600......

mneblett · Aug 23, 2010

Semper_Fi said:
but you now are looking at a new engine, new lights and new user interface - some really big things

I agree that the mirror control electronics and the entirely new dash/user interface electronics are a potential source of hiccups -- its just a lot of "stuff" seamlessly integrate, and like any modern software-driven technology, I *expect* that there will be a number of firmware revisions as the systems are refined/debugged -- just like Windows, Mac OS X, iOS 4.0 (4.0.1, 4.0.2, 4.1, ...). All we can hope is that we get a *very* well-refined "beta," not the dang-near alpha-level firmware that was the original K12's fuel-injection mapping.

On the engine, I respectfully disagree -- while there are likely very few interchangeable parts, the basic design has now been thoroughly proven in the K12/K13 designs -- add two cylinders, reshuffle the behind-the-crank bits (clutch basket position, integrated oil reservoir, etc. -- and you have a K16. While every change of course introduces the potential to create/discover a new problem, on the whole, extending the envelope of an existing design is a lot less risky than bring a totally new clean-sheet design to production.

Semper_Fi · Aug 23, 2010

mneblett said:
.......On the engine, I respectfully disagree -- while there are likely very few interchangeable parts, the basic design has now been thoroughly proven in the K12/K13 designs -- add two cylinders, reshuffle the behind-the-crank bits (clutch basket position, integrated oil reservoir, etc. -- and you have a K16. While every change of course introduces the potential to create/discover a new problem, on the whole, extending the envelope of an existing design is a lot less risky than bring a totally new clean-sheet design to production.

Definately see your point - and they do make an awesome 6 cylinder car engine!!

Like you said - let's hope for a strong beta for the early adopters :dance

Vagabird · Sep 11, 2010

This is all very interesting. I tend to be a late adopter. IÔÇÖve never bought a car or motorcycle in its first model year, always waiting for things to get sorted out.

But in July, when I heard that BMW was going to build an in-line six in GT format, the next day I called the dealer and reserved one.

I hope it works great out of the box, because I want this bike! :dance

(I'll keep my R12RT as a spare, just in case. Now that is a terrific bike.

)

- Kate

K1600GT and GTL Official Announcement

Active member

Member

Well-known member

K Bikes Complex by Choice

Active member

#32806

Active member

New member

K Bikes Complex by Choice

RTKOLENDA

Guest

Active member

RTKOLENDA

Guest

No longer a member here

New member

Beemerphan

New member

Honey Badger

#32806

Honey Badger

A wandering Bird

Similar threads