VW Diesel- Who's doing the Buy-Back? The Fix?

Since there are a lot of folks here who seem to be involved in many things, I'm surprised that nobody's talking about the VW Diesel Debacle.

I have a 2012 VW Golf TDI. I bought the diesel because I drive a LOT, in fact I bought the car almost 48 months ago (mid sept 2012) and have over 86,000 miles on- a driving average of a whopping 1700 some-odd miles per month. (rounding up to 48, by my admittedly weak math) So it's been with some degree of anticipation that I've watched this whole thing unfold. Well. This past week, I got my "buy back" package in the mail. One morning when I had time, I went to the website, registered my vehicle and got The Numbers on the buy back.

OMG.

The buy back includes a solid "Blue Book" value for the car PLUS a whopping "restitution" payment... I guess cuz I've put so many miles on, they figure they owe me more, cuz I've been hurt more? Bottom line is that with the near-max restitution, the buy back isn't too far off the cost of the darn car from new.

This has me reeling. And thinking.

Will The Fix mean decreased MPGs?
Decreased performance?

I drive fast on the freeways, which constitutes the vast bulk of my mileage. This means I don't get amazing MPGs. I probably average around 35-38 miles per gallon. SO if The Fix is going to drop me down to 30 MPG or so, why NOT sell and buy another car that gets that level of economy on regular gas?

OR why not buy another brand of car with a diesel motor? Well looking around, I suppose that limits me considerably, here in the good ol US of A.
There are,
A: Mercedes,
B: Mercedes,
and oh yeah, C: BMW has a diesel, it seems- the 335D. Now I'm not too inclined to buy a Mercedes.... BUT the BMW? HMMM.
OR do I trade the Golf TDI in for another VW?

UPGRADE to another, newer car?
OR FIX?


OK so I could go on and on... But I'll spare us all.
Anyone else involved in this?
Whatchya'all doin about it?

DISCUSS, por favor.

If your VW has been reliable and you like it, why wouldn't you take the buy back and get a brand new one, especially since you say the buy back isn't too far off the cost of a new one? Seems like a no brainer to go from a '12 with 86,000 miles to a'16 or '17 brand new and under warranty....

My delima is that the "fix" has not been created yet so we don't know what it will do. They will give an extended warranty for the components affected by the fix though. The other issue is that I don't think they have a TDI model right now. So I'd be looking at a gas one if I stay with Volkswagen. I do like our Jetta though. I'm going to hold off a bit on my decision until it becomes clear.

Another Option - Chevy Cruze Diesel

We have have a 2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel that reminds me of our old Jetta Diesel.

For the first 25k I think it was 39 MPG for every gallon put into it.

GM does not appear to put much into marketing this model.

The engine is supposedly sold widely in Europe in the Opel line.

Just sayin.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449 Life

I'm in Canada, so we've not gotten any communications yet on VW Package, and it may well be somewhat different from the US offering, but, that being said, I suspect they'll be fairly similar.

Have they given you any time-frame for making a decision? I'd hope that they would have diesel models available during that period of time, so that you have that option. I have a 2015 Touareg TDi and like it too much to give it up easily, so I'm hoping they'll either have a fix for me that I'm okay with or a new Touareg TDi offering.

My VW dealer is a friend of mine, and is also a representative for all the Canadian dealers nationally, so he has a bit more info than some other dealers might have. He has told me that it might be possible for the VW "fix" to not reduce performance or fuel economy! With the technology improving in an ongoing manner, there is the hope that those goals might be able to be met, but we'll just have to wait (with our fingers crossed) and see.

Like I said, I want to keep my Touareg. It gets 30 mpg (US) running on the highway with the cruise set at 85 mph and 15 mpg towing 7,400 pounds. What's not to like?

Alan,

I believe the Federal Court hearing for VW vs USA is sometime in late October. I expect the final word, or a definitive something or other will be handed down (hopefully) not too long after. The *tentative* buy-back date given on the website was Nov 1, 2016, IIRC.

Chevy Cruze Diesel? HMMM. US market? Gonna look into that.

Yes, my Golf TDI has been just about bullet proof. One problem- a sensor or some external aspect of the transmission went afoul a couple thousand miles beyond factory warranty. My dealership, (Sutliff VW, Harrisburg PA) bless their hearts, paid for parts and labor to replace it! I would gladly buy another VW from Sutliff. Trouble is there are no diesels on offer currently. I can get a much newer Golf for my money. Whatever I get will be paid off; I won't have a loan. The gas-powered Golf on the lot right now is the VW 2.0 litre engine, far as I know the one that requires upgrade fuel (90 octane or higher). NOT their best offering. There's a new 1.8 litre motor.... Sutliff has a 2015 Jetta with this 1.8 in it for 15K according to their website! I want a VW that was built and assembled in Germany. Not sure I'd ever buy one that was made or assembled in Mexico or Brazil.

Just got out of my car a second ago. Past three days I did about 800 or so miles of driving. Over 87 K on the clock as of now.

I've been told that the diesel in the VW, the Ram 1500 and even the Porsche Cayanne were an Italian sourced engine that were "dressed" to spec.
If that is true, some seem to be working and I suspect a cure is known. Sorting through how to go about it
OM

The Ram 1500 diesel is a Fiat sourced one IIRC.

VW Touareg, Audi Q5/Q7 and Porsche Cayenne diesels all run the VW 3.0L diesel, so the Audi and Porsche have either fixed the issue or haven't been caught.

ricochetrider said:

I want a VW that was built and assembled in Germany. Not sure I'd ever buy one that was made or assembled in Mexico or Brazil.

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How are you going to make that happen? While final assembly may be in Germany, the engines are from Mexico/Brazil while the wiring harness is most likely Mexican. Several of the actuators, pumps, etc are sourced from Delphi or what used to be known as Delphi.

AlanColes said:

The Ram 1500 diesel is a Fiat sourced one IIRC.

VW Touareg, Audi Q5/Q7 and Porsche Cayenne diesels all run the VW 3.0L diesel, so the Audi and Porsche have either fixed the issue or haven't been caught.

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All in the same VW family, sharing the same problem. However, VW sales volume was dependent on the diesels. Not so for Audi or Porsche. Without the diesels, VW was pretty much becoming a ghost brand in the US. Heading in the same glorious direction as Renault, Peugeot and Fiat....a failed distributorship of a European line.

And, yes, before you say it.......I know that Ghosn remade Nissan under Renault control a resurrected that brand in North America. We'll see what happens with Fiat/Chrysler.

There is no family relationship between VW and Fiat-Chrysler and the VW engines aren't Italian or the same engines used in any Fiat.

The Fiat diesel is a VM product, Fiat having bought VM from Roger Penske and General Motors.

I'll be getting $21K for my 2012 Passat- making for pretty cheap ownership for 5 years and over 60K miles. But I don't want a gas car for a replacement and that's all VW can do now. Have until 2018 to make the claim.

VW dealerships have unsold 2015 diesels they can sell after they are fixed but timeline is not known yet for that.

I want the long range (over 700 miles) per tank so have been test driving other diesel and hybrid stuff. The 2016 BMW 535 diesel is excellent but expensive. Their new one for 2017- likely a 540- is expected to be around 500 lb-ft with a twin turbo 3L- all the BMWs will be getting a redo on the new platform designed to reduce weight.

Still need to try the new Jag XE

The 2017 Honda Accord hybrid might work but C&D claims it falls well short of its EPA 48 mpg- more like 42 in the real world. The Toyota hybrids are old technology these days.

No American brands for me. Without exception every US vehicle I've owned has required too many repairs and had far too much poor design and assembly. They've used up any good will. eg The F-150 POS in the drive has needed every window mechanism replaced at $500 each and don't even ask about changing plugs. Or my old 95 Tahoe that came with factory brakes that needed 170 ft 60-0 so had to be fully replaced with adequate stuff. Or the old Duster and GM wagon both of which had more assembly problems than I can list
Problems with my Japanese and German cars have been minimal to none and rapidly handled by warranty or factory warranty extension.

racer7 said:

The 2017 Honda Accord hybrid might work but C&D claims it falls well short of its EPA 48 mpg- more like 42 in the real world. The Toyota hybrids are old technology these days.

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I know, most people hate the Prius, but it has just had a makeover:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/15-cool-facts-2016-toyota-prius/

And if you can't get 50 mpg in a Prius, you are doing something wrong. With any effort the EPA numbers are easily beatable.

Harry

AlanColes said:

VW Touareg, Audi Q5/Q7 and Porsche Cayenne diesels all run the VW 3.0L diesel, so the Audi and Porsche have either fixed the issue or haven't been caught.

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Actually - they're in the same situation as VW - only worse.

The 3.0L "fix" that VW came up with wasn't approved by "CARB" (California's emissions board) and the status of the Audi and Porsche diesels is basically in limbo. On they Porsche (Cayenne) very little info has been forthcoming from PCNA (Porsche-North America), and all they've done for the owners so far is offered up an extended warranty - taking the warranty to 100k miles and 6 years from in-service date. That's the same terms as the Porsche CPO warranty - but it's being extended to all the diesel Cayennes, and the pre-CPO inspection and service is not included. Porsche also restricted dealers from selling any diesels in stock, new or used. That restriction may have been relieved a bit on used diesels just recently.

To date - I've been watching the subject in Cayenne forums I'm a member of (my Turbo is not a diesel.. but I'm curious.) Owners in the beginning were pledging undying loyalty to their diesels, extoling the virtues of great mileage and big torque (and towing capacity.) As PCNA hasn't even made a peep lately about what the resolution for the 3.0L diesel is going to be - the owners are now starting to become disgruntled and are not at all happy with VW/Porsche. Owners are seeing a decreased value of their vehicles due to the bad publicity and uncertainty - and this isn't making them happy. Most seem to be waiting for a buy-back offer from PCNA and looking to dump them once that is received.

At one point - diesels were over 30% of the US market for Cayennes - and that's a very profitable market, and the largest market segment for Porsche in the US. PCNA/VW have IMHO screwed the pooch and killed any good will people may have been feeling to them. According to owners they're an outstanding vehicle (I've driven a few - they're impressive) - but I doubt if diesel has a future with Porsche in the US.

Ugh. I'll no doubt take the buy-out, I'm offered just under 20K. Been looking at another VW, in gas, probably a 1.8 liter engine. BMW's diesel is appealing but I'd be worried about repair/maintenance costs or breakage of the TWIN turbo. In any case, I couldn't afford a new one. Best I can do, far as I can see, is to get as new a car as I can, gas or diesel, and buy a warranty for it if it doesn't have one at purchase.

Long range indeed.
Given the miles I put on, I'd love another diesel... not sure it's in the cards for me tho.

lkchris said:

There is no family relationship between VW and Fiat-Chrysler and the VW engines aren't Italian or the same engines used in any Fiat.

The Fiat diesel is a VM product, Fiat having bought VM from Roger Penske and General Motors.

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I never said VW was part of the Fiat family. I was saying that VW was having sales issues in the US and seems to be at risk if going the way of Renault, Peugeot, Fiat,etc........ But, for those smarty-pants, acknowledged that Renault only markets their Nissan brand in the US.

36654 said:

I never said VW was part of the Fiat family. I was saying that VW was having sales issues in the US and seems to be at risk if going the way of Renault, Peugeot, Fiat,etc........ But, for those smarty-pants, acknowledged that Renault only markets their Nissan brand in the US.

Click to expand...

I thought he was responding to my previous post
OM

AKsuited said:

I know, most people hate the Prius, but it has just had a makeover:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/15-cool-facts-2016-toyota-prius/

And if you can't get 50 mpg in a Prius, you are doing something wrong. With any effort the EPA numbers are easily beatable.

Harry

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I have to agree with Harry on this. Our 2010 base model Prius routinely gets 50+ on the highway.

I wonder what VW is doing with the cars that are being returned. For someone who lives in an unregulated jurisdiction, a diesel might be a tempting buy; as long as they're prepared to keep it a very long time.

Lots of mostly pretty confusing information on this subject. My read (from other websites) is that VW has to pay you what the car was supposedly worth mid-September 2015 plus a substantial penalty based on the price of the car if you decide to return it. (This for the US, and we hope the same will apply to Canada.) To date, there is no "fix" which make these 2.0 liter diesel engines compliable to emission requirements. My best guess is that there ISN'T any fix or VW would have already have that fix and be recalling these cars to avoid the huge penalties they face - assuming any fix did not drastically reduce the performance and MPG that enticed us to buy them in the first place.

But if you like the car (and most of us do, aside from the pollution they put out) seems to me the thing to do is to hold onto the car until close to the end of the buy back date. You may get two or more years of life from the car with NO DEPRECIATION. If there are few scratches in the paint, doesn't matter. If you are out of warrantee, maybe even extend those expensive service intervals or just forget them. The appearance of the vehicle or whether you kept to the service schedule do not affect what VW owes you when you turn it in for your rebate.

PLEASE don't accept anything I said as gospel. Check other sources and, if I got anything wrong, let us all know on this thread.

This was my third VW. Two "rabbits," the second a very smelly and noisy 1986 diesel that got great mileage and lasted a very long time. Think the 2012 Passat will be my last.