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Thread: /7 Shift Bolt - Needs Tightening

  1. #1
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    /7 Shift Bolt - Needs Tightening

    Sorry about the grime...I'll get right on that! But I've noticed that the shift lever on my /7 is way sloppy. In the past, I've shot more grease in there which helped. But now I realize there's a bolt that goes through from the inside into the footpeg support. As near as I can tell it appears to be an internal allen bolt...it's low profile to fit there. I can't get any allen wrench in there because of interference with the transmission. I'm not about to remove the transmission at this point to get this tightened.

    So, first, does anybody know what size the allen wrench needed is? I can't seem to even find it on the microfilm. Second, anyone have some tricks on how to get some purchase on this bolt and tighten it down? I suppose if I knew which size the allen wrench was I could find a way to cut down a cheapo wrench and dress it up to fit. But is there some other way to get in there? I wonder if one those t-ball allen wrenches would work...lets you come in at an angle.

    If I knew the distance across the flats of the allen wrench needed, I could find a metric bolt with the same dimension across the flats. Then cut that bolt down and either grind flats on the remaining exposed threads or thread a nut onto the remaining threads to give me something to put a wrench on. Looks like I really need to know the allen wrench needed.

    Other ideas?? Thanks...
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    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  2. #2
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    Kurt,

    Why can’t you remove the external shift mechanism from the gearbox, leaving the gearbox in place? The footpeg will come off by removing the large hex nut to the left of the red circle, and the short link off the gearbox shaft should be removeable from the shaft. Then you’d have the whole external mechanism free to move onto the workbench.

    Failing that, you could push the rubber bellows off the ball joints, and remove the internal shaft which (I suspect) is threaded on both ends (right-hand on one side, left-hand on the other) to adjust the position of the shift lever.
    David Brick
    Santa Cruz CA
    2007 R1200R

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    David -

    I'm not trying to adjust the lever, just get rid of the slop. But, I do see what you're talking about...I should have looked farther upstream. I already have a mark on the top of the ball where the footpeg arm is bolted to the frame...you can see that in the picture...I did that when I was changing the clutch out years ago so I could get the pegs back in the right position. I'm wondering how much movement I could get just by loosening that bolt you mention...maybe enough to move the peg away from the transmission enough to get at the allen bolt. Worth just seeing what might happen. Thanks for the idea!!
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  4. #4
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    You're welcome!

    I know you're not trying to adjust the lever, but the adjusting mechanism (the two ball joints connected by a rod with threaded ends) must be able to be disassembled. If it's taken apart, the parts of the shift system you want to get to can be easily removed from the bike to be addressed much more easily on the bench.
    David Brick
    Santa Cruz CA
    2007 R1200R

  5. #5
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Just FYI ... parts fiche NEVER indicate the size of the wrench required.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Just FYI ... parts fiche NEVER indicate the size of the wrench required.
    I'm guessing you misread what I was trying to say. First, I just wanted to be sure I was correct on the type of fastening system I was looking at. Second, sometimes the fiche gives bolt dimensions, such as M6x1, etc. I wasn't looking for the size of wrench...I was looking for more information in general.

    I tried loosening the engine mount bolt but wasn't happy with the kind of access it gave me. So I decided to hit H.F. for some metric allen wrenches and then use a cut-off saw and file to create my "tool". If the actual allen wrench doesn't help me out, the cut-off portion should work well to stick in the backside of the fastener and then use a 6mm wrench on it.

    And, while under there, I found out that one of the two metric cap bots that hold the muffler up near the rear is missing. So, ended up buy a replacement bolt. That will be good to get that done as well.
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    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  7. #7

    I'm confused here!

    19mm deep socket with extension to loosen the engine mount/exhaust clamp/foot peg fastener, pull the rubber boot off the tie rod end, pop the tie rod off and then remove the foot peg and shifter pivot, inspect and tighten the pivot bolt or replace if its worn out. To R & R and inspect takes about 25 minutes.

    Drive to and from Harbor freight, purchase a cheap allen wrench set, cut to size (hopefully) and maybe tighten the pivot bolt a little and hopefully fix the problem. Depending on the nearest H.F. location (mine's 35 miles away) your looking at about an hour at best and you might not even fix the cause of the shifter slop.

    Maybe I just like to take things apart so I can see if I can fix them and put them back together but I would go with the first option here regardless.

    Oh and grim is good, it shows the bike is well enjoyed but I would replace the foot peg rubber on this one because that may be a contributing factor to the sloppy shift.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    David -

    I'm not trying to adjust the lever, just get rid of the slop. But, I do see what you're talking about...I should have looked farther upstream. I already have a mark on the top of the ball where the footpeg arm is bolted to the frame...you can see that in the picture...I did that when I was changing the clutch out years ago so I could get the pegs back in the right position. I'm wondering how much movement I could get just by loosening that bolt you mention...maybe enough to move the peg away from the transmission enough to get at the allen bolt. Worth just seeing what might happen. Thanks for the idea!!
    My guess is, that tightening the bolt you are trying to get to, will not solve your problem, unless, of course, it has loosened and backed out. The slop probably will only be cured if you match the bolt OD (i.e. where the shifting arm rides on) and the shifting arm ID (i.e. where the arm rides on the shoulder bolt). More than likely this will have to be done by using a shim, or by machining both ID and OD to accomodate (sp?) a bushing.

    Years ago (back in the dark ages) my Honda 305 Superhawk had the same situation (Bolt and shifter setup) and they were constantly having the same problem, but the bolt tightening wasn't the problem, but it was the wear between the bolt and shifter. When one shifts, it causes the shifter to kind-of twist as your foot pushes up or down on the left side and the bolt is the only thing that prevents that twisting motion. Over a period of time, it causes wear, even though the bolt is tight.
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  9. #9
    Registered User donbmw's Avatar
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    I have had this same issue on my 82 R65. Aluminum arm that pivots on a steel bolt. Elongated hole is the out come. The parts catalog shows that there my be a needle bearing in the arm. Mine did not. I drilled and reamed the hole and installed the bearing shown in the catalog.
    1975 R90/6, 1980 and 1982 R65, !959 TR3A Triumph Car

  10. #10
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    A 25 minute R&R for me runs into 3 hours!! Plus I'm only a few days away from a trip on the bike and would rather not work myself into a hole. And yes the rubbers are worn...they've been turned once. My boots have a sharp heel edge and has dug into the rubber peg. I now pay more attention to slide my foot up and over the peg so the edge of the heel doesn't dig quite so much.

    In the end, the cutoff allen wrench wouldn't go in very far...not sure why. But for what I could slip in, it didn't seem to help that bolt move at all, so I think the issue is not that bolt...at this point. The aluminum shifter is sloppy but not up/down/front/back sloppy which would tend to indicate an enlarged bore. It's really side to side (I can easily move the forward end with the toe rubber side to side) suggesting that the faces of the shifter have worn and it needs a shim as mentioned...maybe the bore needs attention, too. Again, it's not that critical for now and I'll address it down the line.

    On the plus side, I did a) replace the missing bolt on the muffler aft support; 2) adjusted the muffler clamp which was hitting the side stand when it was moved down; and 3) tightened the center stand bolts. So at least something was accomplished!
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  11. #11
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donbmw View Post
    The parts catalog shows that there my be a needle bearing in the arm. Mine did not. I drilled and reamed the hole and installed the bearing shown in the catalog.
    Can you point me to the part number(s) so I can see what is my issue on the /7?
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  12. #12
    Registered User donbmw's Avatar
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    1975 R90/6, 1980 and 1982 R65, !959 TR3A Triumph Car

  13. #13
    Kurt,

    Here is the address of the page that I found at Max's that shows that needle bearing. But, I think, as I understand it, it took a special shifting lever to accomodate it. The web page suggests that one may want to purchase the new shift lever to get the benefits of the needle bearing.

    http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...2&rnd=08102012

    You will need to scroll down on the left side to pic# 23_0269 (just at the end of the transmission section)

    Here is a note on item #13, the needle bearing: "In shift lever applications, your current shift lever may not be equipped with a needle sleeve. Consider a complete shift lever replacement in this situation."
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  14. #14
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I'll eventually have to get things apart to see what's up. I did see on that Max page what the bolt was that I was dealing with...part 23 41 1 241 595.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  15. #15
    Registered User donbmw's Avatar
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    Kurt it is the same screw and bearing on all of the bikes for that year range. On my 82R65 the screw had no play when placed in the bearing. The shift arm hole was elongated. There is more than enough metal on the shift arm to in large the pivot hole.
    1975 R90/6, 1980 and 1982 R65, !959 TR3A Triumph Car

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