Over heating problem with 2011 R1200RT

I had to jump my battery to get the RT started so I let it run a while to charge. I went in to eat supper and when I went back out it was really hot, temp guage was up and the red light was on. It was running fine, I turned it off and looked down and noticed the rubber cover from the cylinder head was on the ground and the sensor? was poking out. The next day after work I pushed the sensor back in and put the rubber cover back on. It started fine and ran good but after a minute it started leaking oil on the pipes on the left side.
Could this be just a gasket fix or could the head be warped? and is that a sensor that popped out? Yes I was stupid to let it idle that long.

sportyford said:

I had to jump my battery to get the RT started so I let it run a while to charge. I went in to eat supper and when I went back out it was really hot, temp guage was up and the red light was on. It was running fine, I turned it off and looked down and noticed the rubber cover from the cylinder head was on the ground and the sensor? was poking out. The next day after work I pushed the sensor back in and put the rubber cover back on. It started fine and ran good but after a minute it started leaking oil on the pipes on the left side.
Could this be just a gasket fix or could the head be warped? and is that a sensor that popped out? Yes I was stupid to let it idle that long.

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The plastic cover on the outside of face of the valve cover? shaped a bit like a comma? That covers the ignition coil (aka "stick coil") that is on top of the spark plug.

If it got hot enough to pop out the stick coil, it was probably hot enough to damage/destroy the small cup-shaped rubber gasket at the center of the spark plug tunnel that seals the tunnel from the valve cover. Oil would then leak from this central point down from the valve cover/cylinder head area. Could also be damage to the plastic valve cover seal around the perimeter of the valve cover.

I would suggest you (or someone with the appropriate technical ability if you are not comfortable with it) remove the valve cover and inspect the inner and outer seals. And likewise for the right valve cover. And change the thoroughly roasted oil.

I will have it checked out. Thank you for the reply.

Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.

greenwald said:

Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.

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Actually, it is a generator generically but an alternator specifically that generates three-phase alternating current which is rectified into 12v direct current in the built-in diode based rectifier. As for the original post - at least the bike, then the garage, then the house didn't catch fire this time.

PGlaves said:

Actually, it is a generator generically but an alternator specifically that generates three-phase alternating current which is rectified into 12v direct current in the built-in diode based rectifier. As for the original post - at least the bike, then the garage, then the house didn't catch fire this time.

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OK - what he said.

Alternator.

greenwald said:

OK - what he said.

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He said the 2011 BMW R1200RT has an alternator - AKA as a generator, that alternates current (three phace) and build in diodes that change it to a direct current.

GregoryT said:

He said the 2011 BMW R1200RT has an alternator - AKA as a generator, that alternates current (three phace) and build in diodes that change it to a direct current.

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Greg - pardon my ignorance, but out of curiousity, why does the BMW take 12 volts, mess with it a bit, and then change it back to a direct current?

I'm sure the engineers had a good reason - I just wonder what it is.

Historically, alternators are more reliable and longer-lived than generators in most applications.

Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.

sedanman said:

Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.

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Thanks. I learned something, but how much I'll retain is very much in question. Before I read this I thought charging systems were a mixture of Voodoo, alchemistry and regular payments to Batteries Plus.

Alternator vs. generator.

greenwald said:

Greg - pardon my ignorance, but out of curiousity, why does the BMW take 12 volts, mess with it a bit, and then change it back to a direct current?

I'm sure the engineers had a good reason - I just wonder what it is.

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Virtually all modern motorcycles, cars, trucks, and buses use alternators to generate electricity,
they are physically smaller, reliable, more powerful, and charge at idle speed.

Alternators are very simple and easy to work with.
Compare to a charging system in modern Hybrid cars or buses where EV Drive (or similar) systems are continuously working as charging generators, and drive motors depending on demand - all at a much higher voltage rate as well.

sedanman said:

Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.

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Excellent explanation. The last sentence in quote is my normal explanation and that the "Alternator" does not require as high of an RPM to charge. Especially applicable in older aircraft engines and probably older motorcycle engines. You can hand prop the older engines with permanent magnets and the Generator will charge the dead battery.

An alternator needs the field coil excited. Also, both put out raw AC current but is then rectified (Diodes or older systems used a mechancial regulator and points) and transformed to the correct voltage. If needed, a transformer changes voltage using AC that induces a different voltage in a separate coil with different number of windings to produce the correct output voltage.

Large aircraft will use the AC at higher voltages for some applications and only rectify what is needed thru Transformer Rectifiers. A 28 volt DC system in a large aircraft would require very large wires to carry the required power needed for all the systems.

Ignition magnetos (Motorcycles and Aircraft) use permanent magnets and use the same principle as a permanent magnet Generator except no need to regulate the output for sensitive electronics.

I think I got that correct but there are bigger experts here than me. I do a lot of systems teaching and I really try to get my students to understand the how and why of the systems they will be working with.

Wow!

Incredible expertise at one's fingertips here.

All credible explanations, for sure, but that whole "voodoo, alchemistry and regular payment plan" appeals to my simpler sense of wonder.

Most modern motorcycles use an alternator instead of a generator. Generally the voltage regulator has a rectifier circuit that converts AC to DC. To test the system in the line side of the voltage regulator, you need an AC multimeter as well as the AC electrical specs for the alternator.

I have not checked this out on my 2015 R1200R, but its alternator is comparable in voltage capacity to the alternator on my 2009 Harley Davidson Dyna Super Glide. The Dyna is able to charge the battery at idle (approximately 900 rpm's), even with the auxiliary lights lights on. In the winter, with electrically heated gear on a low setting, it still provides enough charge to keep the battery from discharging at idle.

This is definitely comparing apples and oranges. I am going to be doing some electrical work on the R1200R next week. I'll test it at idle and see how well the alternator performs.

Pete

greenwald said:

Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.

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Harley Davidson uses permanent magnet alternators - at least in the modern era.

This is an interesting article on permanent magnet alternators.

http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/altp1.html

Pete

sedanman said:

Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.

Click to expand...

greenwald said:

Wow!

Incredible expertise at one's fingertips here.

All credible explanations, for sure, but that whole "voodoo, alchemistry and regular payment plan" appeals to my simpler sense of wonder.

Click to expand...

Haha, the final payment of a payment plan.......

This fellow started a thread regarding an overheat problem relating to his attempt to charge the battery by letting it idle for an extended period.
I would not recommend this, considering this is a thermostatically controlled engine oil cooler yet basically air cooled.
I know the preferred method of throttle body syncing is to place a fan in front of the cooler while the engine is running.
There is a good reason to do it.
Invest in a battery charger.
That's my 2 cents.
Interesting discussion regarding the benefits and operation of an alternator and generator though, I know I learned a thing or two.
The BMW owners group has some very smart people.

Well worth the price of the membership.

Pulling this just a bit more off-topic...

One of the 'Glides I worked on a few years ago was having a charging problem, in that the apparent alternator output was never high enough to keep the battery up. This happened after the owner had self-installed the larger (30 amp?) alternator, since he had added some ridiculously bright lights in place of the lower "spots".
Seemed like a good idea...
On the left end of the crank (where the rotor mounts up), they use a fat washer on each side of the rotor mount to center it with respect to the center of the stator (magnet assembly). See the first picture in the link shared in post 16.
He had swapped the inner and outer washers/spacers so that the coils were no longer aligned to the magnets.

He claimed (earlier) that he was a helicopter mechanic at El Toro. Glad I never had to fly with his unit...

I got the leaks fixed and the oil changed, and I have another question. I took the battery out, and it is a BMW battery with a date of 11/12 on it. It seems like every time it gets below 70 degrees it wont start the bike, wait a few hours till it warms up and it will start right up. do I need to plug a charger up every night or get a new battery? Thanks for the comments.