Haven't seen much about lubing the spline on my 2011 GSA.. Does anyone recommend it? That BMW mechanic on youtube Chris Harris, discusses clutch R1150 problems of not using the full length of spline on the trans input shaft.. I'm hoping that that was corrected on the later years... I realize that it would be a involved job, removing rear subframe etc. Just wondering if anyone has done it..
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clutch spline lube, @ 32ks?
- Thread starter g rad
- Start date
I understand that's not an issue on the 1200s. I'm not aware of anyone who routinely lubes the clutch spline like you had to do on the 1100s.
JayJay
wyman.winn
i should be out riding!
Wyman, I remember you posting when this happened, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone else report this??? And this doesn't strike me as a function of lubricant, which is what OP asked about initially. Seems to me this is simply the torque overcame the material structure (which is really what the 1100 problem was - insufficient spline engagement by design).
JayJay
JayJay
Ok.I have a feeling of hard use of clutch.Only one question turning in my head.....Lost Rider aka Joe Finn.Destroid the drive shaft but not the clutch!!!???Sooo...it makes me thinking....Starting with rubber burning...wheelies...I don't know.But looking on the driveshaft and the plate ,it sugjest mee a really hard driving.And -or using the clutch all the time.Lost Rider did cca100,000mls on roadless roads not destroying the splinn...just wondering.But probably He could tell us more from the first hand.In the other hand it might bee not enaugh heat treat in factory production,...simply this kind of wear is not normal at all.If it is properly heat trietened,there should not bee a wear at all.If it is overtreatened,it would brake like a glass.Conclusion:mistake in manufacturing.That whot I am suspicious.
BRGDS,Steve
Nice pictures of the failure Wyman~
FWIW, I have seen this type of failure in truck transmissions (power take-off) to hydraulic pumps. The PTO shaft engages matching splines in, say, a 3 section hydraulic pump. The cause is always blamed on lubrication- but I don't know. Worse thing about it is that you have a perfectly good PTO and a perfectly good pump that won't mate up.
The cure is usually new parts (both) due to rebuild expense vs ready to go parts. I have done "git-home" repairs in the field to enable hydraulic service but it is a PITA.
OM
FWIW, I have seen this type of failure in truck transmissions (power take-off) to hydraulic pumps. The PTO shaft engages matching splines in, say, a 3 section hydraulic pump. The cause is always blamed on lubrication- but I don't know. Worse thing about it is that you have a perfectly good PTO and a perfectly good pump that won't mate up.
The cure is usually new parts (both) due to rebuild expense vs ready to go parts. I have done "git-home" repairs in the field to enable hydraulic service but it is a PITA.
OM
ponch1
Ponch
Chris Harris also posited that riding style may affect it. He thought that people that get into 6th gear too soon had problems. In other words, people that babied it. He said that GS riders that were revving more never had problems, but it was the people that loaf along at 3000 RPM in a too high a gear.
wyman.winn
i should be out riding!
i would agree that "babying" may me a cause, but not in my case.....most of the time i wring Sassy's neck....she loves being in the powerband....6500rpm plus.....
i was told that BMW had not seen this type of failure on the 2010-2013 R types.....since the warranty repair the bike has been flawless to 54000 miles in less than two years.....AND she is on her 8th set of tires...that should indicate how she is ridden...
ponch1
Ponch
i would agree that "babying" may me a cause, but not in my case.....most of the time i wring Sassy's neck....she loves being in the powerband....6500rpm plus.....
i was told that BMW had not seen this type of failure on the 2010-2013 R types.....since the warranty repair the bike has been flawless to 54000 miles in less than two years.....AND she is on her 8th set of tires...that should indicate how she is ridden...
Then I would chalk it up to defective parts.
wyman.winn
i should be out riding!
i agree....
when i bought the RT and rode it home i never noticed any shifting problems...sure not silky smooth like most rice burners, but no issues.....i took it in for its 600 mile running in service and from that point until the splines let loose the down shifting was different.....it would hold the rpms up slightly and i would have to blip the throttle to get it to down shift....i was told by the dealer where i bought the bike from that "that's the way BMWs shift"....not hardly...after the repair the gearbox shifts perfectly....so, i can only attribute it to my lack of knowledge and a defect in the parts and/or assembly....the Techs at BMW MC of Long Beach did the repair BTW.....i will never go back to where i bought the RT.....zero customer service....
pglaves
#13338
This is an absolute classic description of a dry, unlubricated spline. We began describing these symptoms with Airheads in the '70s, K bikes in the '80s, and Oilheads in the '90s. If your bike acts like this - needing double clutching like an old milk truck - you are headed to a failure unless you inspect, lubricate, or replace as needed.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
As Paul suggested - I'll chime in on the topic. I'm active on several R1200 forums.. and have been here since this forum started. So far Wyman's failure is the only one I can confirm. And as he noted - it hasn't repeated with an additional 54,000 miles put on the new clutch/splines.
I'm sure there might have been others, but it's not endemic like it was on other model BMW bikes. I'm at 95K+ miles on mine and it still shifts just fine and has never been apart. Since the engine/transmission combo has been on the market for 10+ years I suspect if there was a real problem that needed addressing, we would have heard about it here.
IMHO - there is no problem with clutch splines on the R1200XX series of bikes. There also haven't been multiple reports of the clutch slave cylinder failing, so I suspect that's another item BMW got after the engineers on. And yes - Joe Finn (Lost Rider) did loose a driveshaft, but his was subject to rather extreme abuse, including riding in sand with a failed rubber boot on the swingarm/rear-drive joint. There have been a few other driveshaft U-joint failures (one happened to a friend when we were out riding), but so far - mine when I check it feels smooth and play-free in all planes, so it's not a worry point for me. BMW did design the pivot points so the paralever pivots around the axis of the U-joints, which removed the off-axis movement on earlier designs that may have contributed to early failure, and spline wear on the rear-drive.
I sort of look at the R1200R series of bikes as perfected R1150's - BMW removed or fixed most of the known problems with those bike when they designed the newer bike. They introduced a few new problems, but in my experience, it's a more reliable bike (mine just completed a coast-2-coast-2-coast ride, started with 87,000 miles on it, ended up with 95,300 when I got home. I never doubted that it would get me home.)
I'm sure there might have been others, but it's not endemic like it was on other model BMW bikes. I'm at 95K+ miles on mine and it still shifts just fine and has never been apart. Since the engine/transmission combo has been on the market for 10+ years I suspect if there was a real problem that needed addressing, we would have heard about it here.
IMHO - there is no problem with clutch splines on the R1200XX series of bikes. There also haven't been multiple reports of the clutch slave cylinder failing, so I suspect that's another item BMW got after the engineers on. And yes - Joe Finn (Lost Rider) did loose a driveshaft, but his was subject to rather extreme abuse, including riding in sand with a failed rubber boot on the swingarm/rear-drive joint. There have been a few other driveshaft U-joint failures (one happened to a friend when we were out riding), but so far - mine when I check it feels smooth and play-free in all planes, so it's not a worry point for me. BMW did design the pivot points so the paralever pivots around the axis of the U-joints, which removed the off-axis movement on earlier designs that may have contributed to early failure, and spline wear on the rear-drive.
I sort of look at the R1200R series of bikes as perfected R1150's - BMW removed or fixed most of the known problems with those bike when they designed the newer bike. They introduced a few new problems, but in my experience, it's a more reliable bike (mine just completed a coast-2-coast-2-coast ride, started with 87,000 miles on it, ended up with 95,300 when I got home. I never doubted that it would get me home.)
I'm new to the "modern" boxers (2009 R1200GS) coming from the airhead world. I never gave spline lube on these machines a thought. Is it necessary? How much work is involved?
ponch1
Ponch
You'd have to split the bike in half. It's ridiculous really, to have to do that today and from what I understand, we don't. It would cost a fortune if we had to pay the labor to apply a buck's worth of lube, if that and a lot of time if we did it ourselves.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
The thread above pretty much answers your questions.
vetsurginc
New member
I'd say listen to Paul. It may not be easy, or inexpensive (when someone else does the work) but proper maintenance always makes machinery last longer.
