Helmet use strategy

https://screen.yahoo.com/gary-busey-ad-000000455.html

It's like trying to tell an alcoholic to just stop drinking. They have to figure it out themselves.

Relevant articles gleaned form Mika's BR&TMR today.

Motorcyclist Fatalities Projected to Drop for 2nd Straight Year
Preliminary data show a decrease, but fatality rates continue to outpace those of other motor vehicles
https://motorsportsnewswire.wordpre...jected-to-drop-for-2nd-straight-year-0520156/

Motorcycle sales up, motorcycle fatalities high (uses some of the same stats)
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...otorcycle-fatalities-high-20150519-story.html

Maybe set up an experiment? Tie his wrists together the tie his ankles together. Push him over backwards. Then explain to him that the fall was close to the minimal head damage from a crash without a helmet. Might need to wait until he quits seeing stars... Seriously though, ask him if falling on his face from a standing position would leave him undamaged? Or get a couple of small watermelons and an old helmet. Drop one from six feet and drop the other in the helmet. Some people respond better to visuals than logic.

Continuing to push the same old argument though tends to cement resistance. Tell him, show him, let it sink in. Hope it takes.

OK - time to bring out the big guns.

Don't tell him anything. Just do the watermelon demonstration for his wife or girl friend.

Then stand back and watch nature take its course.

PGlaves said:

OK - time to bring out the big guns.

Don't tell him anything. Just do the watermelon demonstration for his wife or girl friend.

Then stand back and watch nature take its course.

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No cause to get mean.

PGlaves said:

OK - time to bring out the big guns.

Don't tell him anything. Just do the watermelon demonstration for his wife or girl friend.

Then stand back and watch nature take its course.

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Dichotomy

The old saying smart people learn from their mistakes... Wise people learn from the mistakes of others. Below is a story of two riders on the same bike one with helmet the other without. Guess the outcome, two riders who were struck by another vehicle at an intersection.. As Shakespeare wrote "to be....or not to be"

http://fox6now.com/2015/05/23/breaking-one-person-killed-in-motorcycle-vs-vehicle-accident-near-60th-fairmount/

I believe the whole question of helmets (in fact, the whole question of ATGATT) comes down to peer pressure. When I wanted to get into riding a motorcycle, a couple friends who rode introduced me to what I can only call "the BMW culture," because they rode BMW's, belonged to the local club as well as this one. I was fairly poor at the time I started riding. My first two bikes were well-used Honda CB750's - and nobody in the local club looked down upon me because I didn't ride a BMW. I couldn't afford really good riding gear either - but they WOULD have looked down upon me if I didn't dress right. So I had a fairly cheap full-face helmet, a heavy leather jacket from a thrift store, cheap leather gloves, and my old leather hiking boots. Then I got a used leather suit which fit perfectly - just because I saw the right classified ad in a local paper. Now I was "in," though still riding the Hondas.

We would all like to think we would ride in the most protective/comfortable gear we could afford, even if our friends rode in fake helmets, leather vests and chaps. I don't think that is the case with the vast majority of us. We all want to fit in and look a lot like our friends. Think I was very lucky to have friends who rode BMW's instead of Harleys or Goldwings or sport bikes.

So, those of you who also own the other types of bikes mentioned, do you dress differently when you ride with a non-BMW group?

Certainly some truth to the peer pressure idea. A local lad rides both an RT and a Harley. On the HD he's a pirate while on the BMW he's full ATGATT.

I often ride an FJR, but the ATGATT culture is much the same in that group as it is with BMW riders.

We need to keep in mind that we can get a little arrogant which is a bit hypocritical considering we choose to participate in an activity that puts us at considerably more risk than any other road user.

No question about it, there are family members out there asking almost the same question, "my brother is starting to ride motorcycles, how do I get him to stop?" Answers may be just like ours, " take him to a rehab clinic so he can see what may happen to him" " show him the crash statistics that show how much more risk he is taking than driving a car". And, on, and on.

I'm in favor of helmets, but I also support a persons right to choose. I don't want to be preached at by friends and family about how dangerous motorcycle riding is and I bet the guy in question here does not appreciate lectures either.

Risk vs reward, we all make that choice and ours to ride motorcycles is just as bizarre a choice to most people as this kids choice is to us.

rad said:

Risk vs reward, we all make that choice and ours to ride motorcycles is just as bizarre a choice to most people as this kids choice is to us.

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+1

Some days I wonder about my choice to ride. But then I go out and ride, as carefully as I know how.

The way I look at it, I set a good example by wearing a helmet and good gear, making myself visible with a white helmet and hi-viz jacket or vest (not all the time). I present a counter-point to the pirates dressed all in black and wearing beanie helmets or DOT flat-black helmets. It's up to them to make their own choices. They value image, while I value long-term safety.

Harry

My long time riding buddy and I had a funny related safety experience just a couple days ago while returning from a trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.

We head out from the motel to ride a couple of blocks to a restaurant and he felt he had to wear his Darian jacket for the short run. I rode in a T shirt, but felt I needed to wear my motorcycle boots, he wore tennis shoes. We both wore helmets.

We thought it funny that we each had different priorities regarding our safety gear choices. Neither set of choices were right or wrong, just different.

rad said:

My long time riding buddy and I had a funny related safety experience just a couple days ago while returning from a trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.

We head out from the motel to ride a couple of blocks to a restaurant and he felt he had to wear his Darian jacket for the short run. I rode in a T shirt, but felt I needed to wear my motorcycle boots, he wore tennis shoes. We both wore helmets.

We thought it funny that we each had different priorities regarding our safety gear choices. Neither set of choices were right or wrong, just different.

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Depends on what you would regret the most. Road rash? Or a broken ankle?

PGlaves said:

Depends on what you would regret the most. Road rash? Or a broken ankle?

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Yup. A friend who is a fire medic in the east bay and has rolled on a couple hundred motorcycle accidents and is a rider himself told me his experience is that injuries start from the feet up. Meaning, even the lower speed accidents often times result in traumatic injuries to the feet.

I like it that as adults we can make our own choices.

Some people think us ATGATT folk ride faster and more recklessly than the "no gear" folks. While I don't generally buy the argument, on one occasion not donning my protective pants - wore all the other stuff - saved me a speeding ticket. I was just riding 4 miles into town to fill the tank for a long trip the next day and elected to do it in my jeans. It felt a little "dangerous" and I rode a little slower than normal. Hit the last straight shot which is posted at 50 kph (30 mph) where most folk go between 70-80 kph unless they see someone exiting a driveway. Cop hiding behind a tree had me on the radar gun and waved me over. After the usual formalities (license, registration, visit to his computer in the hidden car) he issued me a warning for going 63 in a 50 zone.

After thanking him for not giving me a speeding ticket, I asked how long he had been at this spot and how many tickets he had written. "Two hours, and I have ticketed every vehicle except yours, because you were the slowest."

akbeemer said:

Certainly some truth to the peer pressure idea. A local lad rides both an RT and a Harley. On the HD he's a pirate while on the BMW he's full ATGATT.

I often ride an FJR, but the ATGATT culture is much the same in that group as it is with BMW riders.

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Your third sentence certainly reinforces the idea that "dressing appropriately" is a lot more about fitting in with your friends than concerns about safety or even comfort. First time I have heard about someone with two groups of friends jumping between not only bikes but also gear so they "fit in." Is he less likely to crash on the Harley, or what?

BCKRider said:

Some people think us ATGATT folk ride faster and more recklessly than the "no gear" folks. While I don't generally buy the argument, on one occasion not donning my protective pants - wore all the other stuff - saved me a speeding ticket. I was just riding 4 miles into town to fill the tank for a long trip the next day and elected to do it in my jeans. It felt a little "dangerous" and I rode a little slower than normal. Hit the last straight shot which is posted at 50 kph (30 mph) where most folk go between 70-80 kph unless they see someone exiting a driveway. Cop hiding behind a tree had me on the radar gun and waved me over. After the usual formalities (license, registration, visit to his computer in the hidden car) he issued me a warning for going 63 in a 50 zone.

After thanking him for not giving me a speeding ticket, I asked how long he had been at this spot and how many tickets he had written. "Two hours, and I have ticketed every vehicle except yours, because you were the slowest."

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That's funny

Helmets/ATG, etc

Tell your "bro" to spend a week with me at work (EMS Helo)....seriously.....ask the first responders about survival probabilities with/without a real helmet. Ask them how times they have transported (code 3 or routine) a rider that had "All the Gear" on........I suspect the number is quite low!!! In 23 years, I cannot even remember flying a rider with significant protective gear on......even here in Floriduh!!!

Well I decided to not ride along with my brother anymore cause I love him to much to see him rub his face sliding down the road and yes I cannot live his life but I hope some day he will accept my careing for his added safety with using a helmit.The rest is in gods hands ,He has kids grandkids and I'll never understand the Harley mentality since knowing he rode BMW's and always wore a helmit but now I guess he dosnt have to anymore because he drives a Harley?Just crazy! Oh and I used my helmit when he let me try his hog,what a crappy handling bike it is even comparing it to the handling of my 81 r100rt!

brewmeister said:

Well I decided to not ride along with my brother anymore cause I love him to much to see him rub his face sliding down the road and yes I cannot live his life but I hope some day he will accept my careing for his added safety with using a helmit.The rest is in gods hands ,He has kids grandkids and I'll never understand the Harley mentality since knowing he rode BMW's and always wore a helmit but now I guess he dosnt have to anymore because he drives a Harley?Just crazy! Oh and I used my helmit when he let me try his hog,what a crappy handling bike it is even comparing it to the handling of my 81 r100rt!

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Good choice. It must be hard to watch a brother make choices like that. The good news is that most helmet less Harley riders don't end up killed or maimed on their bikes.