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Thread: new project direction r60/US or R69US and related conversion

  1. #1
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    new project direction r60/US or R69US and related conversion

    Hello

    i acquired a dover r60/2 frame(needs paint anyway) transmission, and engine bottom, and i am trying to figure out the direction to go with it.
    I am planning on urban riding, no sidecar, single rider (190lb with gear)

    It does not have a front end, so i was planning on a /5 front end instead of sourcing an earles arm for it for now.

    The engine has the crank and cam and covers, timing gears, one con rod is bent, from a knocked off cylinder.
    I will have to cut it off to get the crank out.

    But since i do not have cylinders, pistons, con rods, heads, carbs, etc

    is it better to find r60/2 components, or try to get r69 parts to build it out.

    i am thinking i need for a r69s conversion
    con rods
    pistons
    cylinders(and related push rods, valves, etc)
    heads
    carbs

    do i need a different crank and cam? anything else?

    is the r69 cost/work worth the extra power?

    Thanks, D

    also have a spare r75/5 to drop in instead and scrap the whole close to original fuss. though since it is dover white, i think it is probably more proper to make closer to factory.

  2. #2
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    D -

    Welcome to the forum! Quite the dilemma. First, the part numbers for the crank/cam for the two models are different so I would think you'll need more bottom end if you want to go the route of the R69S. The R69S is sportier, higher compression and can also be a bit more finicky when getting it sorted out. The R60/2 is a milder engine but I've not heard many people complain about it. Sure it wouldn't there as quick, but I guess it depends on what you want. The R60/2 is a smooth running engine and many like it. More of them were produced, so there's a better chance of finding parts.

    Are the numbers matching on the frame and engine you have? Sometimes that's important to people.

    It's a tough call, but it sounds like you could get the conversion with the /5 engine going quicker than sourcing everything else. Maybe do that while you slowly gather parts to put the Earles /2 back together...Dover white is very eye-catching. I like the idea of getting a matching /2 back on the road again as it was intended. My 0.02.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  3. #3
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davfinkelstein View Post
    Hello

    i acquired a dover r60/2 frame(needs paint anyway) transmission, and engine bottom, and i am trying to figure out the direction to go with it.
    I am planning on urban riding, no sidecar, single rider (190lb with gear)

    It does not have a front end, so i was planning on a /5 front end instead of sourcing an earles arm for it for now.

    The engine has the crank and cam and covers, timing gears, one con rod is bent, from a knocked off cylinder.
    I will have to cut it off to get the crank out.

    But since i do not have cylinders, pistons, con rods, heads, carbs, etc

    is it better to find r60/2 components, or try to get r69 parts to build it out.

    i am thinking i need for a r69s conversion
    con rods
    pistons
    cylinders(and related push rods, valves, etc)
    heads
    carbs

    do i need a different crank and cam? anything else?

    is the r69 cost/work worth the extra power?

    Thanks, D

    also have a spare r75/5 to drop in instead and scrap the whole close to original fuss. though since it is dover white, i think it is probably more proper to make closer to factory.
    I'm going the same route you are with my R60 in that I'm using a /5 front end while I source a good Earles fork (who knows, maybe I'll just keep it on there). I also had stuff laying around my parts collection including a /5 front wheel, so it made the choice a little easier. Telescopic forks really make more sense if you're not going to use a sidecar (I'm building a solo as well), but it won't be correct for the model and will hurt the value if you plan on reselling. I was able to get a complete front end (including braces, clamps, etc.) for about $160, and then all the seals to rebuild it for less than a quarter of what I'm seeing even slightly bent Earles forks go for.

    From what I understand, the R60s had more power in the lower RPMs due to the cam, but will make about 10mph less than an R69, that being said 90mph on the upper end of an R60 should be fine for the urban riding you describe. Something else to consider is that heads for an R60 are a little more common to find as they were shared between the R60, R50, R51/3, and I believe R67 as well, however finding good ones seems to be a little expensive. Personally, I couldn't find used heads for my R60 that weren't "butterheads" and bought R51/3 heads for mine since the metallurgy was better, but LK heads have the improved metallurgy and rotating valves - see what you can find.

    I'm just about at the point of getting my crankshaft rebuilt and then finally assembling my R60 engine, and after months of finding an early R60 bottom end to transfer to my case and hunting down additional parts, if I didn't already have an R90/6 to ride I would have just done a conversion. In fact a major contributor to not doing a conversion was that the production numbers for early R60s were kinda small and the frame I bought came with the original matching case, whereas R60/2s were produced in much higher volumes.

    Maybe just swap in the R75/5 stuff while you rebuild the R60/2 engine so at least you're up and running?

    P.S. - when I got my R60 frame/case, I also got a box of parts from a swap meet including an R69S cam, crank, and miscellaneous parts. Vech talked me out of trying to build a bike out of parts (since the R69S stuff isn't as compatible with an R60 like the way an R90/6 crank would be with an R75 and so on) and I went his route of finding a complete R60 bottom end for my case and then rebuilding. I wound up selling those parts I bought to finance other things with the project.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

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    gotcha, thanks for the info

    the engine block does match the frame. it is missing the plaque, so i will get a blank plaque to put on there.

    sounds like the best approach is going with the 60/2 and eventually hunt down an earles.

    I have a 75/6 for regular riding, so i am not completely missing out

    I wasn't sure of how much more changes a 69 had vs a 60/2 bottom end, but it sounds like much more than i expected.

    Once i start going down the road on it, i will keep you guys in the loop.
    any thoughts on which 12v conversion to go with?

  5. #5
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davfinkelstein View Post
    gotcha, thanks for the info

    the engine block does match the frame. it is missing the plaque, so i will get a blank plaque to put on there.

    sounds like the best approach is going with the 60/2 and eventually hunt down an earles.

    I have a 75/6 for regular riding, so i am not completely missing out

    I wasn't sure of how much more changes a 69 had vs a 60/2 bottom end, but it sounds like much more than i expected.

    Once i start going down the road on it, i will keep you guys in the loop.
    any thoughts on which 12v conversion to go with?
    I'm going with Powerdynamo, that'll also give you an electronic ignition
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

  6. #6
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    What do you want out of the 12v conversion? I like the 6v system just fine...not trying to do anything fancy with farkles, etc.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    What do you want out of the 12v conversion? I like the 6v system just fine...not trying to do anything fancy with farkles, etc.
    Doesn't sound like the OP has anything beyond the timing cover, i.e. no magneto or generator, but I'm speculating...

    In my case, I don't have an ignition system and since I'm going new I'd rather go 12V just for parts availability. It's really a PITA when let's say a 3w6v festoon bulb blows in your taillight and then find out you have to special order one from somewhere (speaking from experience with my Aermacchi) instead of just walking into the local auto parts store. I also hear that the guys on the Cannonball run found the powerdynamo to be fantastic and that Blue Moon will now be supplying them like Joel Rapose does.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

  8. #8
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    I suppose you're right, but I've not had an issue with any of my 6V stuff so far...Vech is the guy I go to for that anyway.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Yes, pretty much, there is no electrics at all included, so starting from scratch, to get new parts, it seems much cheaper to get 12V, than 6V, plus easier switching out bulbs, and any emergency repairs.

    i live in california, so no real need for accessories here, just costwise, new parts, and bulbs is why i am thinking a 12v system.

    The engine had the cylinders removed, pistons left, flywheel and clutch included, timing cover and underneath, and the rotor/magneto and armature attached to the cam and crank, but all the generator, ignition, wiring, etc that could be unscrewed, cut was removed.

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