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Thread: Classic Motor oil

  1. #1
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Kent Christensen
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    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Cheaper than I thought it'd be, but doesn't mention any API rating anywhere (I'd hope it's SG for use with a 356).

    http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...newproductpage

    Cool idea, but I doubt it's any better than an off the shelf 20w50 motorcycle oil (hey, BMW markets their own oil too, and for bikes!) I guess we'll see once people start using it. For what it's worth, I got excited when Motorex first came out with the oil specifically designed for boxer engines, only to find out only the newer bikes could use it and even then didn't perform very well.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I wandered into the local Porsche dealer...wow, what a showroom...lots of idle sales people...and well dressed, too! I talked to the parts guy and he couldn't bring up much info on the oil. He gave me a parts sheet on the oil which is similar to the link above. In the link and the sheet I got it does say:

    "The special formulation incorporates a high alkaline reserve, which neutralizes any acids that may form. Additional corrosion inhibitors also protect vulnerable components, even during longer stationary periods."

    My sheet mentions the additional corrosion inhibitors by saying "such as zinc". So, it's saying some good things. Zinc is good, having a high base number to offset the acids is good. We just need to see what the API rating is. The chief parts guy is on vacation and will be back later next week. I think I'll stop by.

    I had read somewhere, maybe it was on a Porsche forum, that the 20w50 was $25/liter. Not at all...they were selling a can for just under $12...about what BMW sells their oil.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    I wandered into the local Porsche dealer...wow, what a showroom...lots of idle sales people...and well dressed, too! I talked to the parts guy and he couldn't bring up much info on the oil. He gave me a parts sheet on the oil which is similar to the link above. In the link and the sheet I got it does say:

    "The special formulation incorporates a high alkaline reserve, which neutralizes any acids that may form. Additional corrosion inhibitors also protect vulnerable components, even during longer stationary periods."

    My sheet mentions the additional corrosion inhibitors by saying "such as zinc". So, it's saying some good things. Zinc is good, having a high base number to offset the acids is good. We just need to see what the API rating is. The chief parts guy is on vacation and will be back later next week. I think I'll stop by.

    I had read somewhere, maybe it was on a Porsche forum, that the 20w50 was $25/liter. Not at all...they were selling a can for just under $12...about what BMW sells their oil.
    I was thinking of stopping into the Porsche dealer myself as well. I scoped the Porsche forums briefly to see if anyone sent a virgin sample to Blackstone Labs, but I think it's still too new of a product for that.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I told the parts guy that if they were to publish or provide the specs to their oil and they were good enough, they might open their market up to a wider audience.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Kind of a giggle to mention API.

    That A stands for American.

    Think Germans care about that?

    And to clarify again, "BMW oil" is something that only exists in the USA. Just a repackaging of some Castrol products.

    As for the Porsche oil being "good enough," I'd think it easy to conclude anything good enough for an air cooled Porsche is good enough for an Airhead. The only really stressed Airhead engine is an R100 with big valve heads.
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

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    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Kind of a giggle to mention API.

    That A stands for American.

    Think Germans care about that?

    And to clarify again, "BMW oil" is something that only exists in the USA. Just a repackaging of some Castrol products.

    As for the Porsche oil being "good enough," I'd think it easy to conclude anything good enough for an air cooled Porsche is good enough for an Airhead. The only really stressed Airhead engine is an R100 with big valve heads.
    Yeah I know the API stands for American Petroleum Institute, no need to condescend, but the US is and has always been a major market for Porsche. I really like how car manufacturers can set their own specs that oil has to meet like VW 502.505 (for my cars), and I know Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes do the same. I wish it were the same for motorcycle manufacturers, but all we're left with is "SG" rated 20w50 for our old Airheads. Didn't realize that the BMW oil is only marketed in the US, but I was aware that since they changed blenders from Spectro to BP that it was likely just a re-labeled Castrol 4T conventional oil.

    I plan on stopping at Porsche today after work since it's only a couple miles away, thinking about getting some liters, one of which to send to testing. I used to own a 73 VW, so essentially I owned the same engine that a Porsche 356 had (more or less) and would agree that it probably ran much hotter and was more stressed than my R90; however just as BMW oil is rebranded Castrol that is says on the bottle can be used for "all" BMW motorcycles, I'm wary of another premium brand coming out with their own oil, that although appears to be engineered at a different level than BMW's, performing just as adequate - or mediocre depending on how you take Kurt's analysis of the various oils.

    It will no doubt get the job done, but is it worth it? Maybe we'll know soon.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Kind of a giggle to mention API.

    That A stands for American.

    Think Germans care about that?

    And to clarify again, "BMW oil" is something that only exists in the USA. Just a repackaging of some Castrol products.
    OK then, how about the JASO standard. Wait, you'll giggle about that too - Japanese Automotive Standards Organization.

    It's not about the letters used for the rating system. XYZ for all I care. But we have to have something that one can reference back to, something that we know the basis for.

    Fine, we're not talking about "BMW Oil"...sheesh, Kent. It's about what's inside the bottle that matters. Put a paper bag on the bottle that says "OIL". But give me some way to grade what's inside the bottle.

    I'd prefer not to use "good enough". I'd rather seem some kind of bench marking against a known accepted standard.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by typ181r90 View Post
    I plan on stopping at Porsche today after work since it's only a couple miles away, thinking about getting some liters, one of which to send to testing.
    Sounds great! May I suggest that you include with that a couple of other standard oils so that we have something to rank your test labs results against. If it were me, I'd include at least a couple of different oils that I used in my analysis. That way we can see the relative rankings. Just a thought...
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  10. #10
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Sounds great! May I suggest that you include with that a couple of other standard oils so that we have something to rank your test labs results against. If it were me, I'd include at least a couple of different oils that I used in my analysis. That way we can see the relative rankings. Just a thought...
    I have unopened bottles of Castrol 4T SG rated and BMW conventional, maybe I'll add those to the test just to see if they really are just the same oil. I use the Castrol in my Aermacchi and it seems to be fine, and it's much cheaper than BMW.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

  11. #11
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    I went to Porsche and they couldn't give me any info on it, also had none in stock as they tend to not work on the older cars. I wanted to physically hold the can to see what info I could find on it, but even though I couldn't I still ordered some at $11.83/L (honestly thought my local dealer would have quoted a much more expensive price), should be in in a few days I'm told.

    Kurt, I sent you a PM
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

  12. #12
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by typ181r90 View Post
    Kurt, I sent you a PM
    Haven't seen one yet!
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  13. #13
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Haven't seen one yet!
    weird, I sent it twice now, but it won't show up in my sent folder so I guess it's not getting there.

    Just figured it might be a good idea to run the same tests that were done in the Oil Analysis Update so that the data can be directly compared with other oils and could even amend the prior thread. It looks like you used Bentley Tribology, with the EB+VI package. Just wanted to confirm that before sending it somewhere else like Blackstone Labs.
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

    http://symphonyofshrapnel.blogspot.com

  14. #14
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I finally got the PM plus the email...so I'm covered!! I checked the paperwork they sent me and it says "Text Pkg - EB-G+VI". I'd have to go back and see what that references. The things I was after were viscosity, chemical makeup (looking for ZDDP), and total base number.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  15. #15
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Porsche's point in all this is that they feel modern oils are not correct for older motors.

    So your reaction is to test their oil against a modern oil? As if they hadn't?

    It kind of hinges to me on whether 60s-70s Porsches were built with similar materials as 60s-70s Airheads (which in reality is Airheads 'til the end). I bet they were.

    While I wouldn't give two cents for anything BMW North America does, it is true BMW Germany has not seen fit to recommend or market anything unusual for Airheads. Just Castrol.

    Of course our Airheads aren't worth 10-20 times their original selling price as are, for example, 356 Porsches. BMW's "tradition" operation isn't as robust as Porsche's probably for just that reason.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

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