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Thread: RID Failing Repeatedly

  1. #1
    3D
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    RID Failing Repeatedly

    Gang; Despite having been a member for almost 10 years, I have never used to Forum to help solve a problem until now. I have an '01 1150 GS with 100-plus thousand miles on it. Still runs very well.

    About a year or so ago, my RID stopped working. I bought a used unit from Re-psycle and had it installed. My mechanic - a Master Certified guy who has always done first-rate work - told me he couldn't remember the last time he'd seen on fail. Anyway, 6 months later THAT one failed, and it failed in the same way as the first one - it "froze" on - displaying a "fixed" engine temp, fuel level, gear selection, and time, even when the bike was turned off. The display didn't change at all at any time.

    I took it back to the dealer and had a NEW unit installed (not cheap). It worked fine for about 5 or 6 months and then it, too, FROZE! Back to the dealer - mechanic told me he'd never seen that before and had no idea the cause. He disconnected/re-connected everything and it "cleared" and started working again. It worked fine for about 2 months and then FROZE up again.

    I have gone to the dealer AGAIN to have my Service Rep tell me he's "not sure how we're going to proceed" with this. I know how I'm going to proceed . . . I'm going to continue to return to them until it's fixed, seeing as how I've paid them to do that and it still isn't working. Problem is, the mechanic continues to tell me he has no idea what's causing this repetitive problem.

    I sure would appreciate any/all suggestions (except those that think I should just live with it)>

    TIA
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

  2. #2
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    Mechanics no mater how good they are are notorious bad communicators. He should pick up the phone and call some folks, get answers. Research and query. And like your doing in this forum you can help him out. It sounds like a simple cause, once you find it.
    2005 R1200RT
    BMWMOA # 143779
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  3. #3
    Happily Bent dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    Mechanics no mater how good they are are notorious bad communicators. He should pick up the phone and call some folks, get answers. Research and query. And like your doing in this forum you can help him out. It sounds like a simple cause, once you find it.
    I'm sorry, this one is an assumption by rangereece.

    I'm into the tools since the '70's and I can tell you my guys, 60% communication, 30% tech skills, 10% salesman. If I get a call from my boys, and they are boys, in the 40's and they have a problem on a $5K or $500K machine and it's described like 3D just did, I will always ask the same questions: "are you sure the battery is good, posts tight? Remove and clean all the grounds? Absolutely sure you pulled every fuse and inspected them before you put them back in?"

    No doubt, it could be a much more complex problem but without taking care of the basics, what's next? Buy another RID and install into another bike that way you know the problem is gone?

    Simple cause, I agree, is where I start, good battery, solid connections +/-, clean grounds, pull all the fuses looking for corrosion or blown.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  4. #4
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    +1, DY is pointing you in the right direction. If I were making a wager, I'd guess that none of your RIDs failed. Let me explain why.

    Since you've said they "freeze" but have a display, it is getting +12V but that could be intermittent. Since the bike runs well, and since the RID is a self-contained system, I would bet that it is either the power or ground. Possibly the connector that the RID plugs into has a pin that's not making contact.

    The 8 inputs to the RID are:

    Pins 1-3 - wires from the transmission gear selector switch.
    Pin 5 - +12 V from Fuse 3
    Pin 6 - +12 V switched from the Motronic relay
    Pin 7 - Oil Temp Sensor
    Pin 8 - Fuel Level

    My reason for listing them is that it is unlikely that any one of those signals other than power or ground is affecting the whole RID.

    Pin 4 is ground. It runs through the RID connector, to a connection-point somewhere in the wiring harness. The other wires at that connection point go to: 1) the fourth wire on the transmission gear selector switch, and 2) to either the transmission ground lug or to the battery (my BMW source document contradicts itself). The connection-point may have other ground connections.

    I would start by inspection the RID connector carefully to make sure it's making good contact to the RID and then checking the resistance from the RID connector Pin 4 to the transmission case, maybe move the harness in that area while you do it.

    I hope this helps. It may not be easy to find.

    One off the wall question. Are their any electrical options added to your bike, special lights, etc.?

  5. #5
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    Have you try pulling Fuse 3 which removes 12 volts from the RID? If the RID does not reset, the electronic within are likely fried. As others have posted, the root cause is most likely a bad connection or a broken wire. If the electronics are receiving voltage spikes thru the 12 volt source, the components withing the RID will be damaged. Integrated circuits do not like voltage spikes.

  6. #6
    3D
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    Faulty RID

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerreece View Post
    Mechanics no mater how good they are are notorious bad communicators. He should pick up the phone and call some folks, get answers. Research and query. And like your doing in this forum you can help him out. It sounds like a simple cause, once you find it.
    I'm with ya' . . . and I asked him specifically whether or not he had access to some Master Certified blog or something similar where he could get access to a bunch of other experienced BMW mechanics who could toss it around a bit and offer him some new ideas . . . because he seems to be out of them!

    Thanks for your suggestion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

  7. #7
    3D
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    Faulty RID

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
    Have you try pulling Fuse 3 which removes 12 volts from the RID? If the RID does not reset, the electronic within are likely fried. As others have posted, the root cause is most likely a bad connection or a broken wire. If the electronics are receiving voltage spikes thru the 12 volt source, the components withing the RID will be damaged. Integrated circuits do not like voltage spikes.
    No, I have not - but I sure am hoping HE has! He has told me that he "disconnected everything" and then (obviously) reconnected things and it worked . . . at least for a month or so. I am going to pass all these responses along to my mechanic. I'm hopeful that my persistence pays off!

    Many thanks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

  8. #8
    3D
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    Faulty RID

    Quote Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
    +1, DY is pointing you in the right direction. If I were making a wager, I'd guess that none of your RIDs failed. Let me explain why.

    Since you've said they "freeze" but have a display, it is getting +12V but that could be intermittent. Since the bike runs well, and since the RID is a self-contained system, I would bet that it is either the power or ground. Possibly the connector that the RID plugs into has a pin that's not making contact.

    The 8 inputs to the RID are:

    Pins 1-3 - wires from the transmission gear selector switch.
    Pin 5 - +12 V from Fuse 3
    Pin 6 - +12 V switched from the Motronic relay
    Pin 7 - Oil Temp Sensor
    Pin 8 - Fuel Level

    My reason for listing them is that it is unlikely that any one of those signals other than power or ground is affecting the whole RID.

    Pin 4 is ground. It runs through the RID connector, to a connection-point somewhere in the wiring harness. The other wires at that connection point go to: 1) the fourth wire on the transmission gear selector switch, and 2) to either the transmission ground lug or to the battery (my BMW source document contradicts itself). The connection-point may have other ground connections.

    I would start by inspection the RID connector carefully to make sure it's making good contact to the RID and then checking the resistance from the RID connector Pin 4 to the transmission case, maybe move the harness in that area while you do it.

    I hope this helps. It may not be easy to find.

    One off the wall question. Are their any electrical options added to your bike, special lights, etc.?
    Roger,

    Thanks for all the good info/suggestions. While I'm assuming (dangerous, I know) my BMW Master Certified mechanic has done everything you've mentioned, one thing he hasn't checked is EFI/RFI interference (potential) from my Clear Water HID/LED light module that I installed a couple of years ago. For what it's worth, if this is the problem, is there any way to "shield" the RID from the headlight module?

    Again, many thanks for all your info.

    Best to you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

  9. #9
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    A couple thoughts--

    I would have your mechanic try one of the "bad" modules in another bike and also find someone to carefully check ground,

    The HID/LED module would have to be outputting a huge amount of energy to overcome the ballast of the battery. It doesn't seem likely to me, unless you used the power or ground wire going directly into the RID. Someone could use an oscilloscope at ground and +12 at the RID to see if that's what's happening.

  10. #10
    3D
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    Fuse 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
    Have you try pulling Fuse 3 which removes 12 volts from the RID? If the RID does not reset, the electronic within are likely fried. As others have posted, the root cause is most likely a bad connection or a broken wire. If the electronics are receiving voltage spikes thru the 12 volt source, the components withing the RID will be damaged. Integrated circuits do not like voltage spikes.
    Blacque Jacque, don'cha gimme no flaque; Hey, I pulled Fuse #3, it looked fine, re-inserted it and the RID cleared and is working normally again! While I know it would be great if that simple move permanently fixed the problem, I suspect it will recur just as it has in the past.

    Not being an electrical wizard by any stretch, does it make any sense to pull the fuse block to look for some other problem? . . . loose connection, corrosion, etc? Does the fuse box come out easily, or am I risking some other problem by doing that?

    Anyway, thanks for your suggestion . . . looks like the "electronics within" are still intact.

    Best,

    Doug
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

  11. #11
    Happily Bent dieselyoda's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go any further until the problem reappears.

    If the problem reappears, start with making sure you have no resistance between the battery and ignition power at the fuse contacts. Then check for no resistance to the power and switched power to the RID.

    If all looks good, swap fuses.

    It could be anything from a dirty connection to a crushed wire in the harness.

    Pulling fuses, inspecting and reinstalling has merits beyond description.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  12. #12
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    Great to hear the RID's working again. Pulling the fuse removed the power from the RID, which allowed it to reset. The R & R of the fuse doesn't confirm nor eliminate it as the culprit. That being said, corrosion, oxidation, essentially any contamination on the fuse where it contacts the female receptacle can create a poor connection. I would clean the fuse legs with an eraser, or replace it with a new one. This will eliminate the fuse from the equation should the problem return.

  13. #13
    3D
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    Faulty RID

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
    Great to hear the RID's working again. Pulling the fuse removed the power from the RID, which allowed it to reset. The R & R of the fuse doesn't confirm nor eliminate it as the culprit. That being said, corrosion, oxidation, essentially any contamination on the fuse where it contacts the female receptacle can create a poor connection. I would clean the fuse legs with an eraser, or replace it with a new one. This will eliminate the fuse from the equation should the problem return.
    BJS - thanks again . . . yes, I'm with ya' - I'm not countin' any chickens just yet. I saw no corrosion on the fuse terminals, but was unable to see what might be goin' on down in the female-end of things. A good buddy of mine who's much more mechanically/electrically inclined than myself has offered to show me how to pull the fuse box so we can take a closer look.

    Does the fact that ALL "displays" on the RID (gas, gear, temp & time) were all showing when the unit was frozen? I'm hopin' the problem is isolated to the one fuse for the sake of simplicity.

    Anyway, thanks again for your insight.

    Doug
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3D
    '01 1150 GS-P
    "BlackTop"

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