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04 R1150RT Final Drive Rebuild Options

I think of "preload" as a measure of force, as with springs and shocks. What is preload as applied to fitting a bearing? Where/how is it measured?

Preload, may not be the best description of what you need to do. In the case of the bearing you are talking about, think of it as the same as a wheel bearing, cup and cone.

When adjusting a simple wheel bearing, you have a nut and cotter pin to align. You assemble, install nut and bring the end play to zero, no movement back and forth. You then back the nut off a certain amount, gives you end-play or a little bit of movement back and forth. In the case of pre-load, you bring your adjustment to zero end play, then tighten the nut a certain amount, or applying force on the cup and cone.

That's my simple explanation and I'm sticking to it. Hope that helps.
 
Preload, may not be the best description of what you need to do. In the case of the bearing you are talking about, think of it as the same as a wheel bearing, cup and cone.

When adjusting a simple wheel bearing, you have a nut and cotter pin to align. You assemble, install nut and bring the end play to zero, no movement back and forth. You then back the nut off a certain amount, gives you end-play or a little bit of movement back and forth. In the case of pre-load, you bring your adjustment to zero end play, then tighten the nut a certain amount, or applying force on the cup and cone.

That's my simple explanation and I'm sticking to it. Hope that helps.

The wheel bearing analogy helps, but my spatially-impaired brain is still having trouble. In the case of this bearing, the preload is (apparently) specified at 0.05mm - 0.10mm. Where would one measure that distance?
 
Crap, you would quote metric measurements

The wheel bearing analogy helps, but my spatially-impaired brain is still having trouble. In the case of this bearing, the preload is (apparently) specified at 0.05mm - 0.10mm. Where would one measure that distance?

You used metric measurements and even though I live in Canada, I grew up with Std. So, back to my wheel bearing analogy.

If no end play or shaft movement is 0.0mm, I need to calculate the amount I need to tighten the nut to give me pre-load. If I know 0.0mm and I know the position of my nut, I can simple add a 0.05mm - 0.10mm shim and Bob's Your Uncle and you have 0.05mm - 0.10mm pre-load.

There are a lot of ways to make those determinations from using dial indicators, feeler gauges, torque measurement, spring scales and a string. Last one I did, set it up by feel, sloppy, smooth, tight. I figured if it blew up again, I did something wrong and would live with consequences. That was 35k miles ago. I don't suggest that method.
 
?? what was backordered?

I ordered 2 pivot bearings, the crown tapered bearing, and a couple of tie straps for the boot from Bob's BMW. I just got an email saying one wasn't in their stock and had to be ordered from BMW. They didn't say which one. So the bike will be down for another week or so. Hopefully I won't need to order any shims.

The price of doing something yourself around the kids hockey tournaments, soccer parties, etc, etc. I don't mind tinkering a bit but this is the second time in 6 months it's been down for more than a couple of weeks. I had the front cover off in Dec trying to track down an irritating knock and ended up pulling the threads out of two holes putting it back on. So that was a couple of weeks messing with helicoils and other stuff I hadn't done before.
 
Here are the parts you will need:

01 33 12 7 663 482 SHAFT SEAL - 85X110X10 0.13 1 $31.90
03 33 12 1 242 211 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 85X120X18 1.15 1 $90.79
06 33 11 1 241 257 O-RING - 171,1X2,62 1 $7.12

Once you have measured for the shim, you will then need to order one of these shims (please replace the ',' with a '.'):

02 33 12 2 310 544 SHIM - 0,100MM 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 545 SHIM - 0,150MM 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 546 SHIM - 0,200MM 0.01 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 547 SHIM - 0,300MM 0.01 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 548 SHIM - 0,400MM 0.01 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 549 SHIM - 0,500MM 0.02 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 550 SHIM - 0,600MM 0.02 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 551 SHIM - 0,700MM 0.02 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 552 SHIM - 0,800MM 0.02 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 553 SHIM - 0,900MM 0.03 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 554 SHIM - 1,000MM 0.03 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 555 SHIM - 1,100MM 0.03 1 $11.93
02 33 12 2 310 556 SHIM - 1,200MM 0.04 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 557 SHIM - 1,300MM 0.04 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 558 SHIM - 1,400MM 0.04 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 559 SHIM - 1,500MM 0.05 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 560 SHIM - 1,600MM 0.05 1 $12.29ADD TO CART
02 33 12 2 310 561 SHIM - 1,700MM 0.05 1 $12.29

I would NOT replace the tapered bearing on the other side of the ring gear, or the pinion bearing. I would only replace them if there is something wrong with them. If you do replace the tapered roller bearing you will have to reshim the tapered roller bearing. And, reshimming the pinion gear to the ring requires that you make some special jigs and tools.

99% of the time you only have to replace the Deep-grove bearing list at the top: 33 12 1 242 211

It has been a while since I have done this. So, here is a summary: To reshim the deep-grove bearing back into the FD is usually done by the solder technique. There are other ways to measure it, but this system seems to be easy and accurate. This is done by placing pieces of 1mm solder in 4 places between the housing and assembling it. Then carefully take the 4 solder pieces out and measure ALL 4 of them. Average the 4 solder piece measurements to get the shim size. Then take into account the pre-load to determine the final shim size. Round down if it comes out in the middle.

It should be noted that some FD failed because they were too tight from the factory, so do not depend upon the existing shim to be correct. The deep-grove bearing has been superseded with a new mfg, so it may not be the exact same size.

Once you get ready to do this, we can post a link to a video on how to take it apart and explain how to shim it correctly.
 
Notice that 23217 mentioned 1 mm dia solder. It has to be that small so the 4 pieces don't crush so much they over load the bearing during the measurement phase. It might not hurt to repeat the measurement process so you can average the results.

At a certain point you could use Plastigage (get it from a serious maintenance auto shop or store), but since this product is used primarily for journal bearings to measure radial clearances you may add a metal shim to get down to Plastigags's intended range.
 
Plastigage is used for more than just plain bearings.

Notice that 23217 mentioned 1 mm dia solder. It has to be that small so the 4 pieces don't crush so much they over load the bearing during the measurement phase. It might not hurt to repeat the measurement process so you can average the results.

At a certain point you could use Plastigage (get it from a serious maintenance auto shop or store), but since this product is used primarily for journal bearings to measure radial clearances you may add a metal shim to get down to Plastigags's intended range.

Plastigage comes in various thickness and a color does correspond to it. It does come as thick as 1 mm and you are right, only can find at serious places like engine or tranny rebuild shops.

I've used it for gear backlash.
 
I only had a couple of minutes today but removed the crown gear from the cover. At first glance the crown bearing appears to be in good shape but I'll remove it from the crown and have a better look tomorrow sometime. At that point it's probably easiest to buy a new bearing but I'll probably flip it and save the $90 if it looks okay.

I watched the hour long LT final drive D&A. Great detail. I'll stick to the solder method to check the crown bearing shim however. One thing not covered is checking the tapered bearing shim. The rollers and cup are pitted so I'm replacing the bearing. I've needed an excuse to buy a micrometer but I don't want any specialty tooling. Any ideas on how to shim this with basic measuring tools?

Thank you.
 
I only had a couple of minutes today but removed the crown gear from the cover. At first glance the crown bearing appears to be in good shape but I'll remove it from the crown and have a better look tomorrow sometime. At that point it's probably easiest to buy a new bearing but I'll probably flip it and save the $90 if it looks okay.

I watched the hour long LT final drive D&A. Great detail. I'll stick to the solder method to check the crown bearing shim however. One thing not covered is checking the tapered bearing shim. The rollers and cup are pitted so I'm replacing the bearing. I've needed an excuse to buy a micrometer but I don't want any specialty tooling. Any ideas on how to shim this with basic measuring tools?

Thank you.

All you need is a digital vernier caliper. Chinese ones are inexpensive.
 
To replace the tapered bearing is more complicated then the deep-grove bearing for the crown gear.

Replace Tapered Bearing:
1. Use a 2-piece puller to pull the tapered bearing off. You could also make a tool to do this.
2. Then use an inner puller to remove the race
3. Clean the housing
4. Then heat the housing up with a heat gun
5. Carefully drive the race into the housing. Make sure it is completely driven in
6. Put the spacer in
7. Heat the bearing with a heat gun and drive it onto the crown gear

Shim the tapered bearing:
1. Install crown gear into housing dry.
2. Use special BMW tools to check the backlash. Backlash should be check at 120 degree intervals around the crown gear. Maybe you can make a special tool?
3. Backlash should be between 0.07mm to 0.16mm (3-6 thousands of an inch)

I suppose you could measure the old race, bearing, and shim and compare it to the new bearing and race and adjust for the shim. But, this alternate method might be risky.

Check the Crown Gear to the Pinion Gear:
1. Clean off the gears
2. Dry them with a rag
3. Use Engineering Blue to check the contact of the gears.

If you did everything correctly, the contact should be correct. Personally, I would check the gear contact before I changed the tapered bearing to compare it to after. And, remember just because the contact is correct, doesn't mean that the tapered bearing is shimmed correctly.

Then shim the deep-grove gearing. Personally, I would replace the crown-gear bearing and the seal. You already have play, so the deep-grove ball bearings have ground down to a smaller size. Failure is not far away. Not Uncommon for them to fail around 40k miles. You are at 84k?
 
I suppose you could measure the old race, bearing, and shim and compare it to the new bearing and race and adjust for the shim. But, this alternate method might be risky.


Then shim the deep-grove gearing. Personally, I would replace the crown-gear bearing and the seal. You already have play, so the deep-grove ball bearings have ground down to a smaller size. Failure is not far away. Not Uncommon for them to fail around 40k miles. You are at 84k?

I thought about comparing new and old but the old bearing is pitted so I wouldn't trust the comparison. So I'm waiting on the new bearing before doing anything.
Thanks much for all the details!

Yep. 84K. Far as I can tell it hadn't been replaced so replacing it would remove any doubts.
 
Hopefully someone is still tuned in. Is there any reason a bearing splitter can't be used to remove the grooved bearing instead of the 33 1 830 puller? The LT video instructs to grind down a standard puller and heat the bearing but that involves more tools than I have ie a bench grinder. In any case I dropped the crown gear off at a local mechanic who plans on using a splitter.

Thanks

Bearing Removal.JPG
 
Hopefully someone is still tuned in. Is there any reason a bearing splitter can't be used to remove the grooved bearing instead of the 33 1 830 puller? The LT video instructs to grind down a standard puller and heat the bearing but that involves more tools than I have ie a bench grinder. In any case I dropped the crown gear off at a local mechanic who plans on using a splitter.

Thanks

View attachment 45433

Never used a puller as the jaw tips are too thick.
Two small tire irons is all I ever used.
 
Sounds like it might be time to invest in some tools to get this job done correctly.

Here is a source for cheaper tools that might be helpful:
Puller
Gear Puller
Dial indicator kit
Dial indicator
Magnetic base for dial indicator
Digital Calipers

But, the hard part will be making a special jig to measure the backlash between the pinion and crown gear when you go back to install the tapered bearing. See page 33-18. Some Yankee Ingenuity will be required to do this step correctly. You cannot skip this step.

Measuring for the crown bearing (deep-grove bearing) is easier and the procedure has proven itself.

If you belong to a local club, someone might have these tools already.
 
Never used a puller as the jaw tips are too thick.
Two small tire irons is all I ever used.

Well that answers that question. The only reason I could think that BMW would specify a bearing puller rather than a splitter is a concern that maybe the crown gear wouldn't be strong enough for the load required to break the bearing loose.

Thanks for staying with me on this.
 
Well that answers that question. The only reason I could think that BMW would specify a bearing puller rather than a splitter is a concern that maybe the crown gear wouldn't be strong enough for the load required to break the bearing loose.

Thanks for staying with me on this.

Or to force the dealer to buy yet another special tool.........:whistle
 
Sounds like it might be time to invest in some tools to get this job done correctly.

Here is a source for cheaper tools that might be helpful:
Puller
Gear Puller
Dial indicator kit
Dial indicator
Magnetic base for dial indicator
Digital Calipers

But, the hard part will be making a special jig to measure the backlash between the pinion and crown gear when you go back to install the tapered bearing. See page 33-18. Some Yankee Ingenuity will be required to do this step correctly. You cannot skip this step.

Measuring for the crown bearing (deep-grove bearing) is easier and the procedure has proven itself.

If you belong to a local club, someone might have these tools already.

Excellent. Thanks for the links. I like the dial indicator / bases here better than other options I've come across. I was looking at getting a splitter but everything I saw that would handle a 5" bearing were all north of $100, which is why I took it to a mechanic.

I have a hard time buying stuff I don't foresee getting much use out of. I don't mind tinkering a bit but I'm not sure I really want to get a whole lot of use out of a $150 bearing splitter.

I've got some ideas brewing on how to set up and measure the backlash. I came across a couple of threads where it's stated the BMW tool measures at 49.5 mm from the crown center. Knowing that, the hardest part will be finding center and staying.

Thanks much for the help. If it all goes back together correctly and the backlash rig seems to work I'll document a summary.
 
Backlash

23217;943362 You cannot skip this step. [/QUOTE said:
IMO the backlash setting is most important at the factory to get the backlash set initially.
If the assembled shimming (solder) check is the same as the original was you can skip. I checked several tapered assemblies and found them to measure the same as the one removed.
Never had any issues not checking the backlash.
 
The BMW manual states that the gear backlash needs to be checked if the tapered bearing is replaced. But, I suppose if the replacement bearing/race comes from the same lot, the size would probably be the same. I understand your position, and the existing shimming may be correct. But I think the backlash should be checked. Being wrong means that it could ruin the FD. I am always more comfortable when I know that everything is correct versus I think that it is correct.

Considering that the deep-grove bearing mfg was changed, I would expect the width of the bearing to be different. So, I don't think you can rely on the shimming of the deep-grove bearing to prove that the shimming of the tapered bearing to be correct. I suppose you could check the old and new bearing with a caliper.
 
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