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Thread: 04 R1150RT Final Drive Rebuild Options

  1. #31
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    To replace the tapered bearing is more complicated then the deep-grove bearing for the crown gear.

    Replace Tapered Bearing:
    1. Use a 2-piece puller to pull the tapered bearing off. You could also make a tool to do this.
    2. Then use an inner puller to remove the race
    3. Clean the housing
    4. Then heat the housing up with a heat gun
    5. Carefully drive the race into the housing. Make sure it is completely driven in
    6. Put the spacer in
    7. Heat the bearing with a heat gun and drive it onto the crown gear

    Shim the tapered bearing:
    1. Install crown gear into housing dry.
    2. Use special BMW tools to check the backlash. Backlash should be check at 120 degree intervals around the crown gear. Maybe you can make a special tool?
    3. Backlash should be between 0.07mm to 0.16mm (3-6 thousands of an inch)

    I suppose you could measure the old race, bearing, and shim and compare it to the new bearing and race and adjust for the shim. But, this alternate method might be risky.

    Check the Crown Gear to the Pinion Gear:
    1. Clean off the gears
    2. Dry them with a rag
    3. Use Engineering Blue to check the contact of the gears.

    If you did everything correctly, the contact should be correct. Personally, I would check the gear contact before I changed the tapered bearing to compare it to after. And, remember just because the contact is correct, doesn't mean that the tapered bearing is shimmed correctly.

    Then shim the deep-grove gearing. Personally, I would replace the crown-gear bearing and the seal. You already have play, so the deep-grove ball bearings have ground down to a smaller size. Failure is not far away. Not Uncommon for them to fail around 40k miles. You are at 84k?

  2. #32
    Registered User 2dflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23217 View Post

    I suppose you could measure the old race, bearing, and shim and compare it to the new bearing and race and adjust for the shim. But, this alternate method might be risky.


    Then shim the deep-grove gearing. Personally, I would replace the crown-gear bearing and the seal. You already have play, so the deep-grove ball bearings have ground down to a smaller size. Failure is not far away. Not Uncommon for them to fail around 40k miles. You are at 84k?
    I thought about comparing new and old but the old bearing is pitted so I wouldn't trust the comparison. So I'm waiting on the new bearing before doing anything.
    Thanks much for all the details!

    Yep. 84K. Far as I can tell it hadn't been replaced so replacing it would remove any doubts.
    May the road rise to meet you...

  3. #33
    Registered User 2dflier's Avatar
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    Hopefully someone is still tuned in. Is there any reason a bearing splitter can't be used to remove the grooved bearing instead of the 33 1 830 puller? The LT video instructs to grind down a standard puller and heat the bearing but that involves more tools than I have ie a bench grinder. In any case I dropped the crown gear off at a local mechanic who plans on using a splitter.

    Thanks

    Bearing Removal.JPG
    May the road rise to meet you...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dflier View Post
    Hopefully someone is still tuned in. Is there any reason a bearing splitter can't be used to remove the grooved bearing instead of the 33 1 830 puller? The LT video instructs to grind down a standard puller and heat the bearing but that involves more tools than I have ie a bench grinder. In any case I dropped the crown gear off at a local mechanic who plans on using a splitter.

    Thanks

    Bearing Removal.JPG
    Never used a puller as the jaw tips are too thick.
    Two small tire irons is all I ever used.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  5. #35
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    Sounds like it might be time to invest in some tools to get this job done correctly.

    Here is a source for cheaper tools that might be helpful:
    Puller
    Gear Puller
    Dial indicator kit
    Dial indicator
    Magnetic base for dial indicator
    Digital Calipers

    But, the hard part will be making a special jig to measure the backlash between the pinion and crown gear when you go back to install the tapered bearing. See page 33-18. Some Yankee Ingenuity will be required to do this step correctly. You cannot skip this step.

    Measuring for the crown bearing (deep-grove bearing) is easier and the procedure has proven itself.

    If you belong to a local club, someone might have these tools already.

  6. #36
    Registered User 2dflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Never used a puller as the jaw tips are too thick.
    Two small tire irons is all I ever used.
    Well that answers that question. The only reason I could think that BMW would specify a bearing puller rather than a splitter is a concern that maybe the crown gear wouldn't be strong enough for the load required to break the bearing loose.

    Thanks for staying with me on this.
    May the road rise to meet you...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dflier View Post
    Well that answers that question. The only reason I could think that BMW would specify a bearing puller rather than a splitter is a concern that maybe the crown gear wouldn't be strong enough for the load required to break the bearing loose.

    Thanks for staying with me on this.
    Or to force the dealer to buy yet another special tool.........
    '
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  8. #38
    Registered User 2dflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23217 View Post
    Sounds like it might be time to invest in some tools to get this job done correctly.

    Here is a source for cheaper tools that might be helpful:
    Puller
    Gear Puller
    Dial indicator kit
    Dial indicator
    Magnetic base for dial indicator
    Digital Calipers

    But, the hard part will be making a special jig to measure the backlash between the pinion and crown gear when you go back to install the tapered bearing. See page 33-18. Some Yankee Ingenuity will be required to do this step correctly. You cannot skip this step.

    Measuring for the crown bearing (deep-grove bearing) is easier and the procedure has proven itself.

    If you belong to a local club, someone might have these tools already.
    Excellent. Thanks for the links. I like the dial indicator / bases here better than other options I've come across. I was looking at getting a splitter but everything I saw that would handle a 5" bearing were all north of $100, which is why I took it to a mechanic.

    I have a hard time buying stuff I don't foresee getting much use out of. I don't mind tinkering a bit but I'm not sure I really want to get a whole lot of use out of a $150 bearing splitter.

    I've got some ideas brewing on how to set up and measure the backlash. I came across a couple of threads where it's stated the BMW tool measures at 49.5 mm from the crown center. Knowing that, the hardest part will be finding center and staying.

    Thanks much for the help. If it all goes back together correctly and the backlash rig seems to work I'll document a summary.
    May the road rise to meet you...

  9. #39
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    Backlash

    [QUOTE=23217;943362 You cannot skip this step.

    [/QUOTE]
    IMO the backlash setting is most important at the factory to get the backlash set initially.
    If the assembled shimming (solder) check is the same as the original was you can skip. I checked several tapered assemblies and found them to measure the same as the one removed.
    Never had any issues not checking the backlash.
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  10. #40
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    The BMW manual states that the gear backlash needs to be checked if the tapered bearing is replaced. But, I suppose if the replacement bearing/race comes from the same lot, the size would probably be the same. I understand your position, and the existing shimming may be correct. But I think the backlash should be checked. Being wrong means that it could ruin the FD. I am always more comfortable when I know that everything is correct versus I think that it is correct.

    Considering that the deep-grove bearing mfg was changed, I would expect the width of the bearing to be different. So, I don't think you can rely on the shimming of the deep-grove bearing to prove that the shimming of the tapered bearing to be correct. I suppose you could check the old and new bearing with a caliper.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23217 View Post
    I suppose you could measure the old race, bearing, and shim and compare it to the new bearing and race and adjust for the shim. But, this alternate method might be risky.
    That's putting it mildly. The whole notion of doing that (and it's regurgitated on all forums, with everything that is shimmed) depends on it having been right to begin with. IT BROKE. Why would you want to put it back together the way it was?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dflier View Post
    Well that answers that question. The only reason I could think that BMW would specify a bearing puller rather than a splitter is a concern that maybe the crown gear wouldn't be strong enough for the load required to break the bearing loose.
    You need to move the bearing about a half inch outward and you only have about a half inch of 'splitting' in which to do that. Or you have to then put it in a press or something - a secondary operation. A puller zips it off in no time flat. A puller is all I use. BMW wants their dealerships to use efficient tools. Jaws don't fit? Ummm .. you bought the wrong puller.

    The backlash is usually too great on the bad FDs I receive for repair. There isn't a scenario under the sun that would let me ship a FD without checking the backlash.
    Anton Largiader 72724
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23217 View Post
    The BMW manual states that the gear backlash needs to be checked if the tapered bearing is replaced. But, I suppose if the replacement bearing/race comes from the same lot, the size would probably be the same. I understand your position, and the existing shimming may be correct. But I think the backlash should be checked. Being wrong means that it could ruin the FD. I am always more comfortable when I know that everything is correct versus I think that it is correct.

    Considering that the deep-grove bearing mfg was changed, I would expect the width of the bearing to be different. So, I don't think you can rely on the shimming of the deep-grove bearing to prove that the shimming of the tapered bearing to be correct. I suppose you could check the old and new bearing with a caliper.
    Have you compared different bearings of the same type? It never ceases to amaze me how close they are dimensionally.
    All manufacturers work meet to extremely tight tolerances
    '
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    It's all about the details.

  13. #43
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    The crown bearing shaft is aluminum - not hardened steel. That's probably why they don't want you to use a bearing splitter & recommend a puller instead.

    Since the shaft is aluminum, you might try to chill it in a deep freeze & then quickly use the dual tire iron method to get the crown bearing off. Or if you could get some dry ice or even liquid nitrogen, chill even more and the bearing inner race should drop off with little or no effort. LN2 is surprisingly available. Use a styrofoam container.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrpetersen View Post
    The crown bearing shaft is aluminum - not hardened steel. That's probably why they don't want you to use a bearing splitter & recommend a puller instead.

    Since the shaft is aluminum, you might try to chill it in a deep freeze & then quickly use the dual tire iron method to get the crown bearing off. Or if you could get some dry ice or even liquid nitrogen, chill even more and the bearing inner race should drop off with little or no effort. LN2 is surprisingly available. Use a styrofoam container.
    The crown bearing shaft is steel (part of the crown gear) the shaft for the tapered bearing is aluminum.




    '
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    It's all about the details.

  15. #45
    Registered User 2dflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Have you compared different bearings of the same type? It never ceases to amaze me how close they are dimensionally.
    All manufacturers work meet to extremely tight tolerances
    I don't know a whole lot about bearings but work with peoples that do. From them I understand there are volumes of industry standard tolerances for every dimension and bearing class. Google tapered roller bearing tolerances and pull up Timken's 834 page tapered bearing application catalog.

    If I'm reading the SKF specs correctly, the effective width tolerance associated with the SKF 30205 bearing is +0.200 / -0.000 mm (16.25 - 16.45).
    http://www.skf.com/group/products/be...did=1310000205

    GSAddict's experience probably and reasonably suggests SKF manufacturing variation may be a whole lot tighter than this, but who knows. The original bearing was mfg in Germany. The BMW replacement I just received is stamped Mexico. Does that make a difference? Who knows, but the bearing tolerance is greater than the preload tolerance and 4 times the step in shim sizes so you have to figure something is expected to change when you replace one or both bearings.

    It may be splitting hairs, but the free dimensions are only part of the equation as the mounted preload is also dependent on cup and cone fits on the shaft and in the housing, which themselves are dependent on ID and OD tolerances.

    What is most daunting is all of this stack up on the tapered bearing side will be measured in a backlash spec of 0.003 - 0.006". Considering the quality of the instruments and tooling being used by novice garage hacks (me), it's hard to imagine the measurement error being much better than this. But it's easy to imagine screwing something up if the backlash isn't at least checked as best able. Too tight is probably much easier to detect than too loose, but what are the consequences of either condition?
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